10mm, trying to grasp scale (warmaster)

[grubman]

I've never actually SEEN 10mm miniatures in person.  Before I buy a ton of things I can't paint, I'm trying to get a grasp on the scale.  Looking at pictures isn't very reliable for the most part, since in pics (online) they are enlarged and just look like less detailed 25mm.

In any case, the only dead tree reference I have is the Warmaster Ancients rulebook.  Most of the images are still not actual size...but can anyone help me out with what images are closest to the real thing (by actually placing a 10mm miniature next to it)?

In thinking page 67 might be close?

Long ago, when my eyes were better, I painted a handful of  sci fi 6mm, and I have  some blue moon 18mm wild west sitting on my workbench right now...but even so, I'm having trouble picturing 10mm.

Thanks.

[Sarge Canard]

They tend to be ~10mm tall...

Some are better sculpted/have more detail than others. Depending on your painting style, this may or may not be an advantage.

[mellis1644]

Also I'd recommend Pendraken vs. any of the GW warmaster figs. Much nicer. They are roughly half way between your Old Glory stuff and 6mm.

I have a load of pics of 10mm ACW stuff on my site: https://mellis1644.wordpress.com/category/10mm/

The bases are inch square if that helps you get an idea of the size of figs.

[grubman]

Also I'd recommend Pendraken vs. any of the GW warmaster figs. Much nicer. They are roughly half way between your Old Glory stuff and 6mm.

I have a load of pics of 10mm ACW stuff on my site: https://mellis1644.wordpress.com/category/10mm/

The bases are inch square if that helps you get an idea of the size of figs.

Yeah, I'm looking at Kalistra (12mm) vs. pendrakon (and other 10mm lines). . Like I said, I'm just trying to get a actual size visual.  I know I've purchased 15mm before and been "disillusioned" because in my mind they were going to look/feel as large as 25mm because of the illusion online pictures give (if that makes sense).  Doing this small scale in mass is a new adventure for me, and I want to be confident in not seeing myself up for disapointment before I invest (and yes, I know the painting will be different, for a different effect).

I should note, I live in the USA, so it's not as easy as running to the local store or club and looking at some miniatures.  Any purchase has to be online, with the accompanying wait for shipping...so ordering "sample" miniatures isn't really prudent.  And, of course, living in the USA means I have to prepare and purchase ALL the miniatures before begging random people to play anything that isn't one of the 2 or 3 "popular" games of the week.

Love the USA...but I'm definitely a European when it comes to miniature gaming.

[mellis1644]

Love the USA...but I'm definitely a European when it comes to miniature gaming.

Yep, I'm in Canada and know your issues. But I have moved around one the years and found I need to have 'both sides' of any period game I play to ensure I get to use them.

Note, I have found pendraken postage to be not too bad when I have used them - and you save the taxes so that helps as well. Maybe buying a few packs to test out may be the way to go.

[grubman]

What about ordering one or two sample packs first to see what you think?

As for how easy they are to paint...well, it all depends on what ranges you want. 10mm medievals will require more work than 10mm Egyptians or zulus.

I'd order a couple of packs if I were you - that's the only way you'll know for certain. Oh yeah, and I'd go for the Pendraken 10mm figs as well.

That would seem logical, but since it often takes me  2 or 3 weeks to get a package, ordering samples and then ordering the rest would be about a month or more of "down time" waiting anxiously to paint.  The alternative is possibly buying $100 worth of miniatures that will sit around until I sell them off for half of what I paid  (That's happened more than once).  It's a kunundrum.

[warlord frod]

No problem grubman here is a comparison picture The Figure on the left is a standard Warhammer orc the next is a warmaster command stand (10MM) the next is a standard 15MM ancients stand and the last is total insanity Space Marine 6MM 



I have tried to get the top of the first three bases equal to each other to give you as accurate a comparison as possible (I added the 6MM as an after thought but I doubt you will be a nuts as myself and paint hundreds of these little buggers  ) They are in front of a standard note card with 6mm spacing between lines. Hope this helps   

 

[grubman]

No problem grubman here is a comparison picture

Thanks, that's one of the better comparison shots I've seen...especially since Warmaster (fantasy) is the game I'm actually preparing for.  It's still not the same as holding an actual figure (or at least having a 2D comparison...hence the reference to the Warmaster Ancients rulebook which has a lot of pictures of individual figures).

I think I'd like painting and viewing 15mm more (I mean, even THOSE look small when I hold them in my hand)...but that isn't going to give the same "mass" feel as 10mm (or 12mm, as the case would probably be) would.  Also, I'd get away from the standard scale for Warmaster...on the off chance in a billion that I'd actually find someone else who already had an army or two built and painted...plus 10mm would be a new challenge and adventure (If I actually enjoyed it).

6mm, ha ha, nope, won't do that again.  I painted up a few simple figures once.  They looked cool on close up pictures...but like nothing on the table.  Sold the miniatures, but I wish I had at least kept the pictures.

[Jagannath]

As a sort of vague answer - 10mm feels like 15mm to me, when I paint, as opposed to 6mm. I paint them similarly, just less surface area so quicker. Not sure that applies to Warmaster stands though, I'm more thinking of the Eureka snakemen I've been slowly painting. Definitely feel like small 15s as opposed to 6s.

[TheBlackCrane]

10mm Warmaster, back when I used to paint them, didn't seem too much removed from 15mm, although yes the scale did give more of a sense of mass at times.

In terms of comparison with 15mm for painting, as has been said, depends on the range and period. Warmaster Empire mostly pretty easy, much easier in fact than the 15mm BF&S I paint now (although I think the 15mm BF&S look better once finished, but that might be the progression in my painting since I did WM) - based on that then 10mm was fine and really makes a difference in terms of numbers on the field (and the space needed).

On the other hand, I got hold of some Pendraken SCW a while ago, and didn't even attempt them as they seemed so small! (And this from a person who used to paint 6mm without similar concern) - so very much comes down to range and figures within a range I think. Pendraken do look great painted up from what I've seen, and certainly actual games with them can look terrific, but my, admittedly one, experience of trying to paint them gives me pause when it comes to deciding between 15 and 10. Probably should give it another go, but basically what I'm saying is sampling would be what I'd suggest, despite the downtime between a sample and a main order.

[grubman]

[For Mod]  I posted in the Ancients forum because I was specifically looking for people who had the Warmaster Ancients rule book for a physical comparison of the 2D pictures in that book to real miniatures so I could get a good visual. Figured guys on the Ancients forum were more likely to have that book.

Not crabbing about the move, just explaining my train of thought.

[grubman]

but basically what I'm saying is sampling would be what I'd suggest, despite the downtime between a sample and a main order.

Yeah, it's looking like that's the only way I'm going to get any piece of mind.

I'm primarily looking at going with Kalistra (which is the same as the Pendraken fantasy), which is apparently 12mm (bigger than most 10mm out there).  Apparently all of Pendrakens other historical lines are traditional 10mm.

[Eric the Shed]

Warmaster Fantasy  - one of the best games out there for fun BIG battles - its been ages since we played though...last game in 2012

https://shedwars.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/valley-of-tomb-kings.html



my terrain has moved on a bit since then...

[warlord frod]

I think I'd like painting and viewing 15mm more (I mean, even THOSE look small when I hold them in my hand)...but that isn't going to give the same "mass" feel as 10mm (or 12mm, as the case would probably be) would.  Also, I'd get away from the standard scale for Warmaster...on the off chance in a billion that I'd actually find someone else who already had an army or two built and painted...plus 10mm would be a new challenge and adventure (If I actually enjoyed it).

Its really not as bad as it seems (10mm vs 15mm) if the figs are well crafted. The warmaster stuff is designed to paint in my opinion so its not much harder then doing 15mm IMHO. It is the mass effect that appealed to me. Large armies are possible and look great. You can do the same with 15mm but the difference in table area to get the same effect is significant again IMHO. This is why I love 6mm space marine and micro armor when it comes to WWII.
   

6mm, ha ha, nope, won't do that again.  I painted up a few simple figures once.  They looked cool on close up pictures...but like nothing on the table.  Sold the miniatures, but I wish I had at least kept the pictures.

The key to small figures is to use lighter colors and simpler patterns. Granted painting orcs is sometimes difficult because green that is to light looks almost florescent and the green I prefer tends to look to dark. So I used lots of red, tan, silver and white. Adding Hill giants, trolls etc add splotches of lighter colors. If I get the time I'll post some pic's

Now the key to 6mm is to realize there is less detail and some is easily picked out so it paints up quick (I know I am out of my mind  ) having painted thousands of space marine figs (Marines, Orcs, Eldar, Imperial guard, and squats) 

[fred]

With 10mm think about painting units - not painting individual figures.

Most of my gaming (and painting) is in smaller scales. While I quite like 28mm figures I tend to get bored long before I have enough painted to play a game.

With 10mm (and 6mm) I can churn out units quickly. Think about painting block colours, with minimal highlights. Be brave and go bright with colours (I tend to not be brave enough).

As you are in the States have a look at Warmonger miniatures - a fairly new company but with some very nice figures.

Pendraken are great.

Be aware that all Kallistra and Pendraken's fantasy figures are big, much more 12mm rather than 10mm. You wouldn't want to mix these in units with standard 10mm - they are probably OK in the same army, and certainly work in opposing armies.

With 10mm Fantasy one of the good things is that bigger creatures really can be bigger, so Ogres and Trolls  are pretty much 15mm sized, and Dragons and Giants can be 30-50mm tall.

One thing I find with figures, is that the 2d photos can't give any real indication of the bulk of the figures, and this really seems to affect the perceived size as much as anything.

A couple of big battle pictures to remind to get lots of troops on the table!!



This one is a Warmaster game