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Author Topic: Charlie's 15th century - Some long-overdue Burgundians! (Feb 28)  (Read 154459 times)

Online OSHIROmodels

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - Some German handguns/crossbows (August 26)
« Reply #345 on: August 26, 2020, 11:27:29 PM »
Nice  8)
cheers

James

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Offline HappyChappy439

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - Some German handguns/crossbows (August 26)
« Reply #346 on: August 26, 2020, 11:31:35 PM »
They look great!

And nice to see the Les étrangers article! It's got a lot of interesting information in! Definitely a lot of room to get some mileage out of when building up a late-Burgundian force!

Offline Charlie_

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - Some German handguns/crossbows (August 26)
« Reply #347 on: August 27, 2020, 07:18:47 PM »
 
They look great!

And nice to see the Les étrangers article! It's got a lot of interesting information in! Definitely a lot of room to get some mileage out of when building up a late-Burgundian force!

Yes, it was a great find! I can't recall - did you find it for me??

Offline Griefbringer

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - Some German handguns/crossbows (August 26)
« Reply #348 on: August 28, 2020, 07:52:35 AM »
The small/aborted WOTR range from Crusader has some useful potential for conversions..... It has four handgunner sculpts. My criticism of them is they are all in identical, rigid poses, and like all of that range they have tiny little hands. However I found that just by giving them headswaps, and very carefully positioning their new heads, they don't quite look so rigid/awkward - they look much more 'lifelike'. The small hands I can live with. In their favour, they are very finely detailed, and all the straps, belts, pouches etc are a very nice touch. One of them has a powder horn and a very nice longsword in scabbard.

My understanding is that this range was originally sculpted for Corvus Belli, and then at some point in the past sold to Crusader - this explains why they differ from the usual Crusader sculpts in proportions and style.

I have two packs of these handgunners for some reason - could try doing a few headswaps at some point to provide them with more variety.

Offline Winston

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - Some German handguns/crossbows (August 26)
« Reply #349 on: August 28, 2020, 10:16:42 PM »
They look top drawer and I like the spacing a lot - close together to look like a group working together yet far enough apart to pass as Skirmish or open order etc.
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Offline Charlie_

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Ok, a big post today. I have finally finished expanding and converting my heavy cavalry collection for the War of Burgundian Succession!

So there are now a total of 5 units, 3 French and 2 Burgundian, a grand total of 94 horsemen.

The French units represent the ordonnance companies that made up the bulk of the French armies of this period. Each 'lance' consisted of a man-at-arms with two or three more lightly armoured combatants... I have found differing accounts of what exactly, it seems likely 2 archers, but there are occasional mentions of 'coustilliers' too. I've decided to have my French cavalry units consisting of mostly just men-at-arms. There will be units of dismounted archers (i.e. longbowmen) coming later, and perhaps some small 'light' cavalry units for scouting, skirmishing etc. There are a few lightly-armoured models in the back ranks, they can be considered coustilliers or perhaps lance-armed archers (at some point the ordonnance archers stopped using missile weapons and became armoured lancers themselves, 'medium cavalry' if you like, though this probably didn't happen on a large scale until a few decades later, probably in the 16th century).

The Burgundian units are not the ordonnance companies of Charles the Bold. His army was mostly destroyed at the Battle of Nancy, and many of the survivors (or those companies that weren't there) broke up or even went over to the French. His daughter Mary and her new husband Maximilian of Austria desperately tried to raise new ordonnance companies to combat the invading French. They met with varying success, and they were heavily dependent upon the towns of the Low Countries raising money to pay for them. So I'm interpreting the heavy cavalry of Mary and Maximilian as being outnumbered by the French, and probably inferior in quality, or at least not so disciplined. At the battle of Guinegate, the outmatched Burgundian cavalry were beaten and driven off by their French counterparts.
However these units don't have to represent official ordonnance companies - they can be any sort of men-at-arms fighting for Mary and Maximilian.... specific nobles and their private retinues, mercenaries, allies, etc.

I've used smart livery jackets for the French units (on about a third of the models), with the white cross of France. There isn't much info out there on specific uniforms of the French ordonnance companies, so I've chosen to give most of my army red liveries, though one of these three units is in red and green for some variety. The three ordonnance company standards I got from this website - LINK. The three flags with crosses I made myself on photosop.
In contrast, I've not used any uniform liveries on the Burgundian units, and they have more lightly-armoured figures in the back ranks, for a slightly more rag-tag appearance. I wanted to give them Burgundian flags which weren't specifically tied to Charles the Bold (most Burgundian flags you find have his motto on them), but could be seen as more generic and suitable for Mary and Maximilian's ordonnance companies. Two of these are from Pete's Flags, and the long white one is from the same website I got the French ones from. The heraldic banner is that of Jean de Chalon-Arlay, Prince of Orange, a Burgundian leader who fought for Mary and Maximilian against the French (though funnily enough he originally was one of the French leaders who invaded the Duchy and County of Burgundy, but he switched sides and led a revolt in the name of Duchess Mary soon after conquering the region for the French!). I made that flag myself too.












And here's a secret... the Prince of Orange's banner is removable. I have LOTS more heraldic banners I'm putting together, the idea being they will all be removable like this, so I can have any of the relevant personalities leading either the French or Burgundian cavalry units (I've got a few more extra standard bearers like this). Most of the 'big names' will have individual command stands, but this also gives me the option for any of them to be leading the cavalry in person.




These units don't just use the Perry plastic sets - there are lots of conversions featuring certain Perry metals, and the recently released Steel Fist mounted men-at-arms, both of which expand the range of armour styles available. Some of these models are years old, some are brand new. I won't go into detail individual figures, but see if you can spot the conversions!


___________________________________________

Now here are lots of close-ups and different angles, which show off the models much better I think!




















And an action shot. Charge!




And because I'm sure someone is going to ask for a pic of all of them together.....







So that's it for cavalry. No more horses for a long time!
(Well I do still have multiple mounted commanders to paint, and mounted crossbowmen, and I've got some ideas for open order skirmishing man-at-arms units....)

Next on the list.... the French need some infantry. Ordonnance longbowmen - watch this space!

Offline Silent Invader

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Great update Charlie. Your commitment to this project is evident. Nice touch on the interchangeable banners.  8)
My LAF Gallery is HERE
Minis (foot & mounted) finished in 2024 = 32
(2023 = 151; 2022 = 204; 2021 = 123; 2020 = ???)

Offline HappyChappy439

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Excellent work! That's an impressive force of horse!  :o

Nice idea with the interchangeable banners too! How do you manage that? Is it just a case of getting some hollow pipe to add the banner to, and then slot over the poles?

Offline Atheling

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Beautifully done Charlie and in such numbers!!!  :-* :-* :-*

Offline Ray Rivers

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WOW!  :o

There is something about massed cavalry that I can't resist and yours are fantastic!  :-*

Great idea with the banners too. I'm sure that will come in handy.

Offline Captain Blood

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100 cavalry  :o
That is some achievement Charlie. Well done. They look fabulous.

Offline DintheDin

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Massive cavalry! Excellent work on the metal parts, you achieved a natural movement of the riders and such a variety of postures!
Great! And the horses are well done! Congratulations!
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates. – Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi

Offline Charlie_

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - French and Burgundian cavalry ride to war! (Aug 31)
« Reply #357 on: September 01, 2020, 07:05:53 PM »
Thanks all!

Nice idea with the interchangeable banners too! How do you manage that? Is it just a case of getting some hollow pipe to add the banner to, and then slot over the poles?

Actually no, it's much simpler than that, though I have seen others do it like that, with the flag wrapped around a piece of brass pipe.

It's wrapped around nothing! I just moulded it around a spare metal pike when the PVA was drying, and once dry took it off and popped it on the horseman's lance (which I snipped the head off). It's a nice tight fit, and stays in place when attached. You can move it from side to side, but can also pick the whole figure up by the paper flag! I did add a pike head which is just a 10mm offcut, that is superglued into the paper 'tube'.
It's pretty robust, and even if it does get damaged one day, it's not a problem - I'll just print off a replacement! But I can't see how it could get damaged (unless I dropped the whole unit on the floor or something, but then one paper flag is the least of my worries).

Offline HappyChappy439

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - French and Burgundian cavalry ride to war! (Aug 31)
« Reply #358 on: September 01, 2020, 09:42:56 PM »
Oh wow! Thanks for the explanation! I'll have to give that a try  :D

Offline painterman

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - French and Burgundian cavalry ride to war! (Aug 31)
« Reply #359 on: September 01, 2020, 09:57:51 PM »
Lovely work on those Charlie - the whole project looks great and nice idea on keeping the models fairly generic with the changeable flags!
All the best
Simon

 

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