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Author Topic: Charlie's 15th century - Some long-overdue Burgundians! (Feb 28)  (Read 152717 times)

Offline Griefbringer

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - What's next? (July 1st)
« Reply #540 on: July 13, 2022, 04:26:56 PM »
I'm kind of against the idea of melee units in marching poses without lowered weapons, they'll look daft when they get into combat!

Well, there is that... though with a unit of Francs Archers quality (even with polearms), I would not count on them staying too long in melee, in case they actually will make it that close to the enemy in the first place.

In case you want both of your melee units to look similar, then perhaps it would be best to make them both as dismounted ordonnance troops (men-at-arms and coustilliers), matching your two units of ordonnance archers. This would enable you to make great use of the multitude of dismounted men-at-arms figures available for the late 15th century (unfortunately dismounted coustiliers are not available in quite the same numbers).

Offline Charlie_

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https://fullharness.blogspot.com/

Trying out some obscure miniatures

I recently became aware of the 'Giants In Miniature' range from Wargames Illustrated, which seems to produce a limited run of just 500 casts of each individual figure. Browsing through it I found three that are suitable for the late 15th century, so had to give them a go!



The first is 'Lord Callan' which I believe was made for the recent release of the  Never Mind The Billhooks Wars of the Roses rules. It's a dismounted man-at-arms in English-style armour and a livery jacket, wielding a pollaxe in an action pose - a really excellent and dynamic sculpt. Obviously he will make for a great French or Burgundian man-at-arms, and will be used as such some day in the future!

The second is supposed to be the Englishman John Hawkwood, though it notably wears Italian armour of a style about 100 years later than Hawkwood was actually around. I believe this is because the sculpt was based on a 15th century painting of the man, which depicted him wearing the armour of the artist's day rather than what he would have actually been wearing in the 14th century. So perhaps not suitable for John Hawkwood himself, but perfect for a late 15th century man-at-arms in Italian fashion! A very nice sculpt indeed, and just crying out for a headswap. His baton could also be snipped off and drilled out, to be replaced by a flagpole, or alternatively his right hand could be removed and replaced by one from the plastic Perry heavy cavalry set, to have him waving an axe or mace.

The last of the three is supposed to be Joan of Arc, and for some reason is again wearing armour from a later period than the historical figure was actually around. Conveniently for me the armour seems to be suitable for my period, and again she looks set for an easy headswap. Again I could either use her as a standard bearer or give her a new plastic hand. I'm not so keen on her horse, but she can be made to fit well onto a Perry horse. She doesn't seem like such a good sculpt as the other two, but I'm sure I'll make use of her some day in the future.

I don't know who sculpted these figures - I get the feeling that the first two are from the same sculptor and really are excellent, whereas Joan of Arc might be from someone else and isn't quite as good (but still perfectly useable).

I went ahead and converted John Hawkwood into a standard bearer.



Now I had also for a while been looking for pictures of the 'Condottiere' range of late 15th century Italians by the now-defunct Venexia Miniatures. This range seems to suffer from the curse of having barely any pictures in existence, which surely isn't great marketing if you want to sell them. I'd seen an example of a painted cavalryman and thought he looked really good, the barded horse in particular. searching around I was also able to find some 'green' pics of the cavalry, which certainly look excellent in this form at least.



I eventually found they were still available from Lancashire Games. I decided to take the risk and buy several of the packs even without seeing full pics. If they're not usable then it's money down the drain....

They arrived very promptly. I would rate them as.... variable. Let's take a look at what I got straight out the bag.

First of all, the cavalry. I ordered two packs of three, but got an extra fourth rider in each for some reason. The riders, fully armoured men-at-arms in Italian armour, are all the same sculpt as far as I can see. They come with separate heads and right arms, which is nice. The heads themselves are alright, the armets look very useable, but don't really offer anything you don't get with Perry. I'll probably give them plastic Perry heads to make them mix in with the rest of the collection better. They can also use the plastic right arms from the Perry heavy cavalry set, as the armour is identical. There are two types of arm provided - one for carrying an upright lance and one for a raised hand weapon. The weapons themselves are separate and I won't be using them - I'm generally not a fan of separate metal weapons, they are generally oversized and no one likes bendy lances. Some are broken/miscast too.



Some of the riders are a bit miscast, but I won't ever be using all eight, if I do use them I'll choose the cleanest casts in the lot.

In terms of size they are the right sort of bulk to mix with Perrys, but a bit shorter. If put on a Perry horse the feet won't come down to quite the right place. In this way they are perhaps the same dimensions as the Wargames Foundry WOTR cavalrymen.

Now the horses. There seem to be two barded horse variants, and two unbarded. First of all, the unbarded horses are nothing special, certainly inferior to the Perry metal horses, so I won't be using them. The barded horses however are VERY nice - both in variants of Italian=style steel bard, one of which has a cloth covering. They are smaller than the Perry plastic horses though, not just in height but also general build, which is a bit of a shame. I think they'd look small and skinny if mixed into a Perry cavalry unit, which isn't what you want for the most heavily armoured horses in the front rank. They are however roughly the same height as the Perry metal horses (which are slightly smaller than their plastic ones), so I could use them on a separate commander base rather than in a big unit quite happily I think. More variations of horse bard are always welcome for high-ranking commanders.



Next, the infantry. There aren't many different sculpts - I got the crossbowmen (two poses) and the polearm infantry (four poses). They are alright, perfectly useable. Slightly shorter than Perry. One of the polearm men in heavy armour I'll definitely be making use of. I think they will all find a place in my collection somewhere or another in the future. Again the heads are separate, which is good - they'll look better with plastic Perry heads I think. The supplied polearms are oversized and I won't be using them.



I also got the artillery piece and crew. I like collecting artillery I guess - I have four painted up and something like three other variants now waiting to be assembled and painted one day. It's a good quality gun - the crew are based on the polearm infantry sculpts. I'll be using it someday for sure.



There are a few other sets I didn't get - handgunners, command, light cavalry, sword & shield infantry and stradiots.

So the Venexia range has some uses for conversions and mixing things into the larger collection, though admittedly I think most of them are going to remain in the components drawer for a while before I make use of them.

Offline MaleGriffin

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  • Don't bother running.... You'll just die tired....
Great review of the figures! Those polearms would fit in better with 54mm figures. I absolutely love what you did with the Hawkwood figure!
Hoc quoque transibit
Sanguinem sistit semper

Offline magyar

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 58
Very interesting!
I too liked the Hawkwood figure with the headswap, and the gun crew looks very nice indeed. Some really cool horse barding, wish the horses were bigger  :)

Offline Captain Blood

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Some interesting and obscure finds there Charlie. Agree the gun crew looks quite good  :)

Online HappyChappy439

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Interesting set of figures! The Hawkwood conversion is really effective!

Offline Griefbringer

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  • Posts: 273
That figure for late 15th century John Hawkwood looks like a nice sculpt, though the posing somehow makes me think that he is checking his wristwatch (and even your converted stantard bearer seems to have head posed in similar angle).

Interesting to see pictures of the Venexia figures. I once purchased the Italian command pack from some source, and did not get too inspired to try purchasing any further items - I found the sculpting a bit mediocre, and they were a bit bulkier than Perrys. The separate heads are an interesting idea, though the ones that came in the command pack did not feature much variety. That artillery piece in your pictures does nto look too bad, though.

Offline Charlie_

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - More francs-archers (July 24th)
« Reply #547 on: July 24, 2022, 02:12:19 PM »
https://fullharness.blogspot.com/2022/07/more-francs-archers.html

More francs-archers

Here's the second unit of francs-archers. Like the first one it's a unit of 20, made up of mostly Perry metals with some plastics mixed in, and headswaps to avoid duplicates.









And here are the two units side by side, plus combining them for a unit of 30 men.




Offline Dolnikan

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - More francs-archers (July 24th)
« Reply #548 on: July 25, 2022, 05:46:46 AM »
They look great. With them all advancing but not in exactly the same pace and with different weapons really gives off a vibe that fits the era.

Offline Charlie_

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - More francs-archers (July 24th)
« Reply #549 on: July 25, 2022, 03:45:55 PM »
They look great. With them all advancing but not in exactly the same pace and with different weapons really gives off a vibe that fits the era.

Thanks, yes that's exactly the effect I wanted - not too uniform!

Offline Griefbringer

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  • Posts: 273
Re: Charlie's 15th century - More francs-archers (July 24th)
« Reply #550 on: July 25, 2022, 06:47:59 PM »
That's a pretty decent looking lot, and stylistically fits well with the previous one.

My personal approach would have probably been to use a bit flashier figure for unit leader (say, with more armour, fancier helmet or more dynamic pose), though your more minimalistic approach is also interesting. It might take a few seconds more to spot the leader, but with his pose, tilted head and mouth open to yell orders, it is still clear who is in charge here.

As for establishing a bit ragged and dis-uniform look, it certainly helps to put a few of the archers without livery coats in the first rank, rather than hiding them all in the rear rank.

Online HappyChappy439

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - More francs-archers (July 24th)
« Reply #551 on: July 25, 2022, 08:58:17 PM »
Great work on the unit! I've definitely got a soft-spot for the metal marching infantry sculpts, always glad to see them in use!

Offline Charlie_

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - More francs-archers (July 24th)
« Reply #552 on: July 28, 2022, 08:00:16 PM »
My personal approach would have probably been to use a bit flashier figure for unit leader (say, with more armour, fancier helmet or more dynamic pose), though your more minimalistic approach is also interesting. It might take a few seconds more to spot the leader, but with his pose, tilted head and mouth open to yell orders, it is still clear who is in charge here.

Yes I gave the first unit a more obvious leader figure, I thought I'd do it differently with this one!

Great work on the unit! I've definitely got a soft-spot for the metal marching infantry sculpts, always glad to see them in use!

Yes they're great sculpts - I wish there were some metal sculpts in the same style in other poses too. Like with most Perry metals they aren't the best castings, when cleaning them up and laying down the base coats I always notice dodgy spots on them and which they were cleaner, but once painted up and based in a unit they are really not noticeable.

I've had enough of painting archers now though!

Offline brunei35

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - More francs-archers (July 24th)
« Reply #553 on: July 29, 2022, 07:33:44 AM »
Look excellent and like the way mixed in the marching poses with the plastics as other said. Will have to give it a go sometime. Thanks for posting again on this interesting thread.

Offline Charlie_

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Re: Charlie's 15th century - Theatres of war (August 7th)
« Reply #554 on: August 07, 2022, 06:14:34 PM »
No new miniatures today, just a history post on the blog - https://fullharness.blogspot.com/2022/08/theatres-of-war.html

I've summarised all the different theatres of war for the whole 1477-1493 period, to see which ones make for good gaming opportunities. I've also got a chart of all the named nobles and commanders I've been able to find, and which theatres they were involved in.

I won't post the whole thing here - follow the link if interested.

I will however post the list of specific battles, skirmishes and sieges that would make for good scenarios!



The attempted relief of Arras (1477) - A Burgundian relief force was ambushed and routed.
The failed attack on Tournai (1477) - A disorganised Flemish army was defeated by a smaller French sortie, and the Duke of Guelders was killed.
The siege of Vesoul (1477) - Guillaume de Vaudrey sortied out at night and surprised the French siege camp.
The Battle of Émagny (1477) - The French fought to cross the River Ognon, which they eventually managed after taking heavy losses.
The first siege of Dole (1477) - The French bombarded the walls but their subsequent assaults on the breach failed. They settled in for a long siege, but were again surprised and routed by a night-time sortie.
The capture of Gray (1477) - Claude and Guillaume de Vaudrey scaled the walls at night and captured the town after hard fighting, though it was looted and set ablaze in the process.
The second siege of Dole (1479) - After methodically capturing the surrounding fortresses, the French under Charles d'Amboise managed to enter the town through trickery, as German reinforcements secretly in their pay opened the gates to them. Dole was subsequently sacked.
The Battle of Guinegate (1479) - A major pitched battle. Though the French cavalry routed their Burgundian counterparts they pursued them far from the field of battle, after which Maximilian's infantry defeated the French.
The failed attack on Hesdin (1481) - John de Berghes was tricked into leading a 'secret' assault over the walls at night. It was a trap, and the French were waiting for him.
The capture of Dordrecht (1481) - The Burgundians entered the town hidden in boats.
The Battle of Westbroek (1481) - The Burgundians lured the 'hook' rebels of Utrecht out of the town, where they were outnumbered and crushed.
The Siege of Utrecht (1483) - Maximilian besieged Utrecht - after bombardment and hard fighting the rebels in the city eventually accepted peace terms.
The Battle of Hollogne (1483) - Guillaume de la Marck was defeated by Philip of Cleves.
The Battle of Béthune (1487) - Maximilian's army was defeated by the French, who captured Engelbert of Nassau and Charles of Egmont. This battle seems to have been quite significant, but I've found no information on how it actually played out.
The Battle of Dixmude (1489) - Flemish rebels besieged the town of Dixmude, but were attacked and defeated by a force of landsknechts and English allies from nearby Calais.
The Battle of Brouwershaven (1490) - The 'hook' faction leader Franz van Brederode was attacked whilst raiding along the coast by John of Egmont. The battle began at sea and continued on the shore, were the hooks were defeated and van Brederode captured, later dying of his wounds.
The 'bread and cheese revolt' (1491-1492) - A peasant uprising in which several towns were captured, before it was put down by Albert of Saxony.
The recapture of Arras (1492) - Burgundians recaptured Arras, one of the most important towns in the French-held county of Artois.
The Battle of Dournon (1493) - As Maximilian moved to retake the Franche-Comté, a force of Burgundians and Germans (landsknechts) faced the French under Jean de Baudricourt and soundly defeated them.

 

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