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Author Topic: References for 10th/11th Century Scots  (Read 1165 times)

Offline Byrthnoth

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 76
References for 10th/11th Century Scots
« on: June 11, 2017, 08:20:48 PM »
Hello all,
I'm planning to put together a Scottish force for SAGA that would be appropriate for around 950-1050 AD, but I've been having trouble with sources. Most titles seem to be quite broad in terms of period and/or geography, and I'm reluctant to pull the trigger on a book that covers 1000 years or the whole of Britain and Ireland since it may offer very little information specific to my period.

Miniatures-wise, Crusader and Gripping Beast both do 'dark age' Scots ranges. The design brief for both ranges seems to have been 'regular dark age hairy guys, but with bare legs and some bare feet' – is this supported by contemporary sources, or is it an case of imagining a continuity with later kilted Highlanders for the sake of creating a distinctive 'Scots' range?

Given that the Scots would have had significant interaction with the English and Vikings by the 10-11th century, how different would a Scottish force have looked from its opponents, both in terms of appearance and composition?

Obviously this is a period where the sources are kind of few and far between, but if there are any solid references out there they would be great to know about.

Offline Byrthnoth

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 76
Re: References for 10th/11th Century Scots
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2017, 02:00:53 AM »
Primary or secondary, anything that sheds some light on what Scottish troops looked like circa 1000 - most miniatures companies seem to have gone either for "Anglo-Saxons who left their trousers at home" or "let's recycle our Pict range" as their inspiration, and I'm curious whether there's textual or archaeological basis for those choices.

Although to throw a wrinkle into this thinking, I'm considering a warband based out of Edinburgh/the Lothians, which were part of Northumbria until the mid 10th C and perhaps using Saxon figures (and battle board?) would be most appropriate.

Offline frank xerox

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 405
Re: References for 10th/11th Century Scots
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2017, 10:27:46 AM »
I think Saxons for the Lothians is a good call.
For further north, yup Id say bare legs were accurate for Scots outside the scandinavian fringes round the north coast.
After all, before your period youve got Picts in long tunics and bare legs and afterwards early medieval illustrations of the siege of carlisle in 1130 (or thereabouts) show Scots bare legged with a loincloth/ cagoule type tunic. Think accounts of Northallerton in 1138 mention a lack of trousers but might be wrong. The Norwegians even have a king Magnus who gets nicknamed "barelegs" because he adopts Scots fashion. Again hes slightly later than your period but it shows continuity.

Im very (very) slowly putting an army from the same period together myself and mixing in Crusader Scots, GB Picts and Claymore routiers. I reckon its basically just helmets, sheilds and hem lines that change over time

Offline charla51

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 149
Re: References for 10th/11th Century Scots
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2017, 01:26:01 PM »
Remember that the Scots of 'Scotland' at this time weren't long before immigrants out of NE Ireland.

Offline frank xerox

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 405
Re: References for 10th/11th Century Scots
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2017, 10:17:21 PM »
I wouldn't be sure about that, modern archaeology seems to be coming round to the idea that gaelic speakers were indigenous and not the result of invasion from Ireland, just shared culture round a relatively small body of water. They can't find any signs of change to show that foreigners came in and started doing things differently.

Mind you archaeologists spend too much time looking for old Roman tat rather than what matters if you ask me.

Even then immigrant Scots would be a minority - the ruling class and some wannabes

Worth a contingent of Irish looking Scots though, along with Pictish, British and Saxon types in distinct units. That would be a cool looking army. And 3 or 4 saga forces as a bonus.

 

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