Soviet Cold War Tank Battalion Organization Questions

[Mako]

I've dabbled with Cold War era gaming for quite a while now, and still have the occasional question regarding Soviet Tank Battalion TO&Es, made even more confusing by some background info I'm aware of, and contradictory statements in manuals, like the US' FM100-2-3, where it states that they contained 31 tanks, and yet also 40 (sometimes 41 is mentioned too) tanks, within a page or two of one another.

From what I recall, 3 x tank companies of 10 tanks, plus one HQ vehicle used to be the norm, back in the 1960s and 1970s.  However, at some point during the Cold War, so it goes, the Soviets were concerned with staying power for their units, so while NATO companies reduced the number of vehicles in their companies, the Soviets seem to have increased theirs, to 3 x tank companies of 13 tanks, plus one or two HQ tanks at the battalion level, for 40-41 total.

Some, early, independent tank battalions might even have 51 tanks in them, organized as 5 x 10 tank companies, plus one HQ tank.  Those seem to be fairly rare.

Tank battalions for the Naval Infantry list 41 tanks.  Not sure if that is 3 x companies of 13, or 4 x companies of 10, plus HQ units.  Apparently, these can be a mix of PT-76s, and T-54/T55 tanks.

I have the general impression that the tank battalions for the Motor Rifle Units generally utilized the smaller, 31 vehicle tank battalion organizations, and that the tank battalions of tank units used the 40/41 tank orgs. starting sometime around the middle of the Cold War 1970s, or early 1980s.  The FM TOE lists seem to back up the former, for the Motor Rifle Units, with 93 tanks to a tank regiment.

Don't know if that is for sure, but that's what I seem to recall, about the time period.  Can anyone put a better date on that, or confirm if my recollections are true?

Also curious to know if the Tank Regiments/Battalions of Tank Divisions had the larger company orgs., or if it really didn't matter, and all (tank companies of both tank and motor rifle units) switched over to the 13 tank companies, instead, at some point?

I'm also curious to know if this varied by tank type in the units, e.g. perhaps T-64, T-72, and T-80 units getting the larger companies, while older units used the older orgs.?  

Could be the reverse too, I guess.

I did run across a snippet, that by the end of the Cold War, 75% of the tanks in Western Europe were of the newest models, e.g. T-64 and later, and that there were only about 1,500 T-80s out of 19,000 tanks, or about 8% of the total tank force for the Soviets.  That was in FM-100-2-3, IIRC.

I know there is some info that didn't get updated until very late in the game, after the Cold War was over, due to concerns about secrecy, etc., etc., like the fact that Motor Rifle companies really contained 12 and not 10 vehicles in them, due to the addition of the 2 extra vehicles carrying support weapons, e.g. heavy machine guns and grenade launchers.

FM-100-2-3 was released to the general public in 1991, so there should have been time to update any errors by then.

[carlos marighela]

IIRC and it's been a long time since I've checked or thought about this, the thirteen tank companies from the forty-one tank battalions were from the tank regiments of Motor Rifle Divisions. The Tank Divisions maintained the standard 10 tank company.

This varied over the years and doesn't take into consideration the Independent tank battalions at Army level.

I'm not sure that the US Army did get it right in 1991. I think they were still confused about the makeup of Motor Rifle companies and the allocation of the extra BTRs, something their NATO allies picked up years before. The late and much missed Allen Curtis had something to say on this.

The site itself has gone but I pretty sure the graphic organagrams from the excellent Armoured Acorn site are still available via the Wayback machine. Have a look for that.

[carlos marighela]

Oh and the Naval Infantry was nominally three companies of ten PT-76 and a ten tank company of T-54/T-55. That may well have been subject to mission requirements.

[frank xerox]

Yep, 13 tank companies for the MR divisions and 10 for Tank divisions is my recollection as well.
R Mark Davies is a name worth checking out on various forums as well - he knows his stuff on what russian tanks were where in the 1980s.
Me I miss my old Challenger army lists...

[Arrigo]

10 tanks per company in tank regiments, (31 tanks per battalion)

13 tanks in Motor Rifle regiments (40, tanks per battalions)

MRD independent tank battalions (one per division) were supposed to have 4 companies at 10 tanks each plus on BN command tank so 41 in total, but may have also had 4 companies with 13 plus the battalion commander tank (53).

Thus in a tank division you would have 3 tank regiments and one Motor Rifle Regiment; in a MRD 3 Motor Regiments (each with its own 40 tanks tank battalion), one tank regiment, one independent battalion.

Separate brigades we a bit confusing, also the naval infantry. PT76 were being phased out in the 80s in favour of a full T-55 battalion, also some source list one T-55 battalion, and one PT-76 battalion.  The Red Banner Pacific Fleet Naval infantry had first two full separate brigades then a fulld division in the late 80s, organized as a conventional MRD.

T-80 were never deployed in large number because the turbine engine was a nightmare. The T-80 was supposed to be the standard tank for the Soviet army, but it was a problem child (like the T-64). If the T-64 problem stemmed from a too cramped diesel engine and suspension that were too light (to save on weight and dimension and to avoid Nikita's disdain for heavy tanks), the T-80 problem were int he turbine. Everything else appeared ot be be working well, but soviet engineers had problem to cram the turbine in a restricted space (again shadows of Nikita). Yet despite problems the T-80 has powerful backers (Marshall Ustinov, and the Leningrad party boss... a chap called Romanov no kidding..., and early on even Zhosif Kotin...). Toward the end of the Soviet Union, after Ustinov and Romanov death the Soviet made U-turn on turbines for tanks. They instructed the Karkhiv plant to adapt a diesel engine, originally designed for a follow on T-64, to the T-80U and the T-84 came to light, but then when everything was ready... and game for the Soviet Union.

In 1989, the bulk of Soviet tanks in Germany were T-64 in the north, T-80 in the south. Units in Czechoslovakia had the T-72. Some units in Ukraine the T-64, units around Leningrad and Moscow the T-80 (see the pattern... close to factories).  According to published force holding in 1990, before the big withdrawals started there were 3,929 T-64 west of the Urals.

[carlos marighela]

That's it! I remember there was a difference between the Tank battalions attached to each MRR and the independent battalion of the MRD. I think there was a further variation or variations, depending on time period, for higher level independent tank battalions.

[Mako]

Thanks for the replies, and details.

Glad I asked, since it appears I had it completely backwards.

Good to know about the 4 x 13 tank companies, plus the HQ, for the 53 tank battalion. Hadn't heard of that one before.

I had read about the 51 tank unit, with 5 companies of 10 tanks (perhaps the intel guys were just a little off, on vehicle counts, like they were for Motor Rifle Company vehicles too, which really should have 12 instead of 10 vehicles in them, once you add in the support section for each unit).

I'm planning on a Baltic Sea Naval Infantry unit, and in the TO&Es they list 41 tanks, which could be of a reported mix of the PT's and T-54/T55s.   I was planning on perhaps 1 x company of PT-76s to lead the way to the beaches, and the rest T-55s, so it's good to know the official mix of 3 x PT-76 companies, and 1 x T-55 one.

Of course, with the changeover to heavier tanks, who's to say some enterprising Naval Infantry Regiment Commander can't have his way, right, since it is a fictional WWIII battle, or campaign?

Hmmm, now need to brush up on Polish Naval Infantry units, I suspect, since they were supposed to lead the way in clearing the Danish Isles of NATO troops, and probably make a landing or three along the northern German coastline too.

[cuprum]

Maybe this information will be useful to you (in Russian):

https://history.wikireading.ru/319817

[Mako]

Thank you for the link, but unfortunately, my Russian speaking/reading ability is virtually nonexistent.

[cuprum]

This is not a problem for a long time already  You will be surprised to learn what Google translator is capable of. Of course, you need to get used to it, but I read with it a lot of articles in the most diverse languages, which I also absolutely do not know.

For example, now I'm writing to you with his help 

[Hobbit]

You may find this webpage useful; scroll down to near the bottom and it will give you the equipment holdings for 336th Independent Guards Naval Infantry Brigade in 1990. The rest of the site is well worth exploring too.

http://www.ww2.dk/new/navy/336ogbrmp.htm

[Mako]

You are correct of course, Cuprum, assuming I have the patience to do that.  Google translate is a very useful tool, so I appreciate your suggestion.

Thank you Hobbit, for the direct link.  That is helpful as well.