Perfect 'classic' orcs question.

[waitwhat]

Paul Bonner's black and whites in the Warhammer books were wonderful as well, with their almost warthog-headed brutality, which probably marked a turning point in their evolution in the fantasy world as a whole.

So much this. and I know it's not in the question but the border illustrations from the likes of 'Ere We Go, Freebooterz, etc... they just set my 12yo mind on fire.

I mean, look at these fellas:




Anyways, that jaw/cheek thing is my idea of classic, and weaponry wise probably an axe or a club. Brutal, blunt, low finesse. low maintenance.

[Hobgoblin]

It's interesting that although the Paul Bonner orcs were quite different from earlier illustrations, they still fit quite nicely with Tolkien's descriptions. So, they've got big heads, short bow legs, long arms and large hands. And they look quite short. You could give those space orks mail, scimitars and shields with the Red Eye, and you'd be hard pushed to show how they differ from Tolkien's descriptions (tusks rather than downward-pointing fangs, perhaps, but not much else).

The Realm of Zhu blog identifies this orc by Gary Ward and Edward Crosby as establishing the Citadel look:



But I think that it might be the other way round. That orc, to me, is very like the trooper from Harboth and the Black Mountain Boys - not just the face, but the jerkin and leggings too. He's on the left in the image below:



As far as I can see, the Black Mountain Boys were released in June 1984 and The Caverns of the Snow Witch in October 1984. So I suspect the illustration is based on the miniature (of course, it's possible that the illustration was in circulation earlier and the miniature was based on it).

[markdienekes]

Have you looked at these ones?

http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/ral-partha-fantasy-c-37/fantasy-armies-c-37_39/gargantua-orcz-c-37_39_51/

[Cubs]

Have you looked at these ones?

http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/ral-partha-fantasy-c-37/fantasy-armies-c-37_39/gargantua-orcz-c-37_39_51/

I hadn't, but they are nice aren't they.

[Connectamabob]

I suppose I'm the odd one out in that I prefer the "upright" style of orcs found in modern video game RPGs*. Usually sized and proportioned like beefy humans, with their own independent culture rather than being just "savages" or tools of an evil mighty whitey power. More like... fantasy Klingons, for lack of a better comparison, than some kind of slovenly degenerate oversized goblin.

Classic Tolkien-style orcs feel oversimplified to me, basically everything about them seems designed to be a one-note "always chaotic evil". Sort of like how sci-fi Stormtroopers are designed to be de-personalized as possible so you can gun down as many of them as you like without thinking about it, these orks seem designed to be a one-dimensionally hateable/disgusting "enemy".

GW style orks are more fun, but I find them overly cartoony, both in appearance and manner. Also their size, for me, crosses the border between "ork" and "troll" or "ogre". I feel like these "races" are so vaguely defined between IPs, that one of the few general markers of the difference between and "oc" and an "ogre" or an "orc" and a "troll" is relative size. So when I see "troll" or "ogre" sized "orcs",  I feel like that particular IP has kinda broken one of the last things holding the concept in place.

Pig faced orcs feel similarly: like they're orcs in name only.

One thing I do like about "classic" orcs is the sense that they are competent craftsmen in their own right. I don't like the common modern trope of ork-made weapons, armor, buildings, etc being crude and ramshackle. I suppose that's an extension of my preference for them having their own developed culture.

*The Elder Srolls series is a mostly good example: they get the physicality and culture right, but not the craftsmanship part. World of Warcraft is a bad example: the physicality is all borked (males are GW style troll-orks, females are human supermodels with sharp teeth), the culture is half there (they have their own culture, but it's a shallow "tribal savage" stereotype), and the crude craftsmanship trope is in full force.

I also quite like Terry Pratchett's Orcs, though it's hard to discuss those without getting spoilery.

[Hobgoblin]

Classic Tolkien-style orcs feel oversimplified to me, basically everything about them seems designed to be a one-note "always chaotic evil". Sort of like how sci-fi Stormtroopers are designed to be de-personalized as possible so you can gun down as many of them as you like without thinking about it, these orks seem designed to be a one-dimensionally hateable/disgusting "enemy".

Tolkien's orcs have a bit more complexity, though: they seem to have loyalties and ambitions of their own (see the conversation between Shagrat and Gorbag), and are very human in many respects. They're virtually the only characters in LotR, apart from the hobbits and Gollum, who talk in a normal register rather than an epic one. I'd say they're almost uncomfortably human; they appear to be based on British soldiers as much as anything else (there's support for this in Tolkien's letters).

As far as orcish images go, Ian Miller's take a bit of beating:

[westwaller]

I love Ian Millers Orc illustrations although I probably wouldn't want to try painting a miniature version of them as there would be a lot of detail to paint!!

I've always thought that the Harlequin/Blacktree 'Great Orcs' have something of the look of Miller's illustrations. Mind you, the great orcs are much too big for Tolkien Orcs.

I quite like the idea of Orcs having more than one look- I thing one of the problems with later GW orcs is that they all looked the same- big and goofy with very little character.

Threads like this are dangerous- I've been adding Oop Citadel Orcs to my lead pile recently as a consequence!!

[beefcake]

Hobgoblin, Those Ian Miller works make me think entirely Asgard orcs. I think they fit the same aesthetic.
Conectamabob, I wholeheartedly agree with your points about the orc/ogre/troll difference with the size. Often if I purchase large orcs, too large even to be thought of as black orcs (depending on your definition of that) I will use them as ogres or trolls (again depending on the "orcs" look).

[Hobgoblin]

Hobgoblin, Those Ian Miller works make me think entirely Asgard orcs. I think they fit the same aesthetic.

Yes: it's the slouching that does it. As westwaller says, painting an actual Miller orc miniature would be a nightmare, but the Asgard ones capture the sense of movement and poster. On that note, I recall that when I saw the first Burton Planet of the Apes film, I though that the ape soldiers were much more orc-like than Peter Jackson's orcs. The apes move like creatures with long arms and crooked legs, whereas Jackson's orcs move like ... people.

[levied troop]

Classic Citadel orcs are my preference, although given their mongrel background I'll settle for virtually any style without too many qualms.

However, they must be painted green.

[Cubs]

However, they must be painted green.