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Author Topic: 3D printed Tanks  (Read 2838 times)

Offline chamberlain

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Re: 3D printed Tanks
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2017, 12:38:00 AM »
On the .1mm layer height:

Another problem people have with 3d printing not looking good enough to their eyes is that layer lines show up in photographs way more than in real life.  And on top of that, many filiments are actually more translucent than many people would think and a little bit of see through makes every layer show up way more than it will once it's primed.  I find this especially true of many PETG (even if I love it for it's other characteristics).

Many printers use a pretty standard hot end (often an E3D or a clone) and you can change the nozzle and go smaller.  Print takes longer, but I'm printing really small things.  I've also had to tweak my retraction and temperature.  Otherwise it would clog.  I find PETG (being a higher temp and a stickier filament) has better layer adhesion so I can go for even smaller layers than the normal nozzle diameter divided by 4.  Print speed is down at 20mm/s though (considering many people print at 60+ at .1mm and their stuff still takes longer than they'd like) and I think I also had to manually mess with steps per mm on the step motor settings to get it absolutely perfect.  Although I can just print at normal speed at .1 even with the smaller nozzle.

Changing back and forth between nozzles is basically the same process and clearing a clog.  No problem for some and a world ending problem for others.  o_o

Even a normal .4mm nozzle can be tuned to print at thinner than a human hair.  Most people tend to do .1mm as it means they don't have to adjust things to combat possible problems.  Actually as odd as it sounds, many E3D V6 based printers print best with no modification at .09.  A couple prints of some calibration towers with different layer heights and temperatures and anyone can zero in on the best resolution possible with a given printer and filament combo.  The mechanics of your Z axis actually have optimal layer heights as a natural result of the way they move.

On the "five years off" - they were right 8 years ago.  It's been a good three years now that proven reprap printer designs have been taken by various manufacturers and mass produced.  Most sub $1000 printers are based on some sort of open source base, be they actual Prusa i3 printers, clones, or disguised as branded printers.

I think what people mean when they express things like that (and that learning 3d modeling is hard) is that they want 3d prints that look as good to them as miniatures they can buy.  No child doing 3d design on a tablet using some very simple software in preschool is going to accomplish that.  And neither will the typical end user of a 3d printer.

Same with the layers.  Even commercial SLA printers that get down to ridiculous resolutions are often still tumble polished with tiny ceramic beads to remove the last hints of layer lines.  Insane people who love poison also like to chemical polish ABS with vapourized acetone (I consider this a horrible idea).  Then there's the simple process of using a sandable primer, glazing putties and other proven scale model techniques to allow a surface to be sanded smooth after each layer step is filled.

Many people won't acknowledge that 3d printing is truly "there" until they get the same results as a current commercial miniature like a plastic tank kit without having to do any design work or polishing/finishing.  "There" to them is a push of the button instant perfect miniature with no layers.

It's not realistic, but it is what they want.  They can get miniatures right now without doing any 3d design, the miniatures have no layers and have set their expectations.

3d printing is not for everyone. What gets to me though is the huge amount of misinformation out there about it.

I think lots of people who would like to give it a go are put off by incorrect statements usually made by people with at best a passing knowledge of 3d printing if any at all.

I have the opposite concern.  I think it'd be really easy to spend $500 on something and a year later have it sit there having only printed a handful of bad prints.  I think it's far more likely that people are sold on something that's really not for them in a highly commercialized hobby than they are put off something that would be wonderful for them.

My view is probably from being frustrated watching educational budgets/tax payer money go towards 3d printers but then they sit there so heavily under utilized.  It's so easy for people to be sold on the idea of 3d printers and then the reality hits and most people have no use for them.  Even most teachers that are enthusiastic about them struggle to integrate them into their ciriculum in a meaningful way.  I know so many teachers who basically use them as trinket printers where the student walks away having learned nothing but with a trinket in their hand they'll very shortly forget about or lose.  At least with miniature wargaming the utility is far more direct and obvious.

Quote
If you are a member of a 20 strong gaming club then a club purchase of a machine is frankly a no brainer.

And the odds are the person driving the group purchase (or taking contributions to pay for a printer with the understanding that the contributor will get something they want printed) will be the kind of person that can make a 3d printing an enjoyable part of the hobby.

When 3d printers do become prevalent enough that everyone knows a fellow gamer who has one, then we'll be at a real interesting inflection point.  And I mean knows them to the point that they can shoot off a instant message or an email and at the next club night they hand over cash for something they want.  And everyone knows someone that can do that for them.  Decentralized local production is going to be awesome for the hobby.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 01:21:40 AM by chamberlain »

Offline chamberlain

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Re: 3D printed Tanks
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2017, 02:06:15 AM »
oh yes the 3d printer snake oil salesmen are also a problem. Look at the thread on that robot builder that is a POS for a good example of promising the world and delivering bupkis.

For sure.  I don't know how many times a school has had some 3d printer sales guy come by and play a video about printing prosthetic hands for children missing limbs and they all lose their minds and have to have one in their class room yesterday.  And six months later it's been used to print like 2 my little pony figures or something.

The best place for 3d files for miniature gamers is to be part of a little community where people are remixing things from thingiverse.  Like the dungeon tile printing community where they are taking free files and making changes to make them work for the D&D game and then sharing the new file as well (or sometimes selling stuff made from scratch for a very reasonable price).

wilmanric's cauldrons (original designs, not remixes)


Epic Dungeon Tile's... dungeon tiles


Matikish's thread is full of great examples of 3d printing for gaming and a good place to see pictures of painted vs unpainted for those who want to see how much of a difference it can make:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=98364.0




 

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