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Author Topic: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system  (Read 1842 times)

Offline Shadowdragon

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Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« on: October 03, 2017, 01:10:17 AM »
Back in the day I used to play some Fantasy Rules 3rd edition from Chipco, mainly for fantasy and ancient myth. Sadly, it seems the game is now long OOP. Are there any good 15mm mass combat games for fantasy and ancient myth that have come out recently, or are still well supported? I'm looking for something that can handle really big armies, doesn't use command points or any system that limits how many units you can activate per turn, actually makes the races/cultures different from each other, and preferably has rules for sieges. Does anything like that exist or should I just try my luck at tracking down a copy of Fantasy Rules?

Offline robh

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2017, 09:42:15 AM »
Although initially designed as an Ancient/Medieval set of wargame rules Impetus is great for Fantasy gaming. Each base is a unit so it deals well with really big armies, no trying to move hundreds of small bases to get a massive battle. (In 15mm Heavy Infantry unit bases are 8cm x 4or6cm depending on close or open order)

The Fantasy variant has been around for about  6  or 7 years now and is a "proof of concept" free expansion. The official version is being written and tested at the moment. You have a series of traits/attributes that you allocate to create types of units and monsters that match the Fantasy you are building. In basic terms you allocate the Fantasy unit a historical counterpart so Heroic Knights could be Medieval like Knight Templars or Condottieri, Ancient like Cataphracts or Renaissance Gensdarmes. It is very simple to "build" the armies from Warhammer, Lord of the Rings or any other Fantasy ruleset or genre.

Impetus has 2 mass battle sets; Basic Impetus which is designed as a starter set being slightly simplified with less characterisation options. The Full version of Impetus includes optional rules for more detail with differing unit abilities and command traits.
The system is well supported via the website and forum.

http://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/6467/DadiPiombo

Offline El Grego

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2017, 06:55:21 PM »
Chipco's Fantasy Rules are still available - both 3rd Edition and the newer, streamlined TCE - albeit in PDF form.  One can order them direct from one of the authors by e-mail.  I do not have that e-mail by memory at the moment...  If you have access to Yahoogroups, the Chipco group is still functioning and you could find the e-mail there.  Or, I will post it after I get home   ;)

Offline fred

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 07:26:48 PM »
You might want to have a look at Mayhem or Kings or War.

Neither are particularly 15mm, but I'm not sure that figure scale is too important for mass battle rules.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 08:19:08 PM by fred »

Offline Hobby Services

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 09:56:20 PM »
The ChipCo yahoo group does appear to be the primary contact route for orders, etc these days.  Fantasy Rules is hard to kill.

Another choice that was a contemporary of FR would be Armies of Arcana, which should still be available through Lone Gunman Games last I knew.

Offline Shadowdragon

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 01:06:01 AM »
it's a shame that there seems to be so few decent 15mm scale mass combat games out there. Makes me want to start making a game of my own.

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 08:18:50 AM »
Mayhem, which fred recommended, is really terrific. It's as much for 15mm as anything else, though using the recommended basing for 10mm (i.e. 40mm frontages rather than 50mm) would keep the troops compatible with most other 15mm games.

It does, however, have a command-points system, but it's a bit different from most other games. In a typical set-up, you'll have ample command points to move all your troops in each turn most of the time, but you'll also be faced with the temptation to use 'overdrive' to make certain units perform complex manoeuvres. So there's constant decision-making on the command-and-control front: you might be performing a pincer manoeuvre with your orcish army when the opportunity arises to pull off a lightning raid (eating up command points) with your outlying wolfriders. There are also 'standing orders', though, so if you want your infantry lines to perform a steady advance, you can leave them to it. Command and control does 'degrade', though; as you lose heroes and banners, your command-point rolls become less certain. So, in a big battle, you might conceivable be rolling six or seven d12s at the start and picking the best, but be down to one or two (or taking the default of 6 points) by the end.

Mayhem also has rules for sieges. It has no set profiles, so you can tailor each unit to whatever suits the miniatures (one manufacturer's orc is not like another's ...), but there are free Battlescribe files (for a phone app) that contain statted-out profiles for Warhammer-style armies. The flexibility is great, though, for when you want those 10-foot-high ogres to act differently from those 20-foot-high trolls.

It's also a fast-playing game. Units are squares, but typical 40x 20 15mm elements double up nicely; I'm preparing some 10mm armies, but also play in 28mm with Hordes of the Things elements doubling up.

Can I ask why you're so averse to command points? I think there are plenty of good massed-battle games (Mayhem, Hordes of the Things, Sword and Spear Fantasy, Rally Round the King ...), but they've all abandoned IGOUGO to give a more satisfying command-and-control system. For a genuinely huge 15mm massed battle, I'd go for Hordes of the Things, dividing a large table up into one command for every 2 feet of table and, if it still looked too small, using 36 AP per command instead of 24. On a 6' table, that could give you armies with 40-50 units each (more with lots of hordes) and would still be playable in two or three hours. Of course, HOTT has both command points and standard troop types, but as someone on the Yahoo group pointed out, the flavour comes from the blend of troop types in an army rather than the elements themselves.

Where there might also be a case for HOTT, despite command points and standard units, is that it handles ancient myth very well. It does this through the rules for gods and dragons, and the interaction between heroes and magicians. Many of the army lists in the rule book are drawn from myth; the inspirations for those army lists and for the game are very much classic fantasy literature and myth, rather than - as so often - other games. And it is a beautifully balanced game: dragons and gods are very powerful, but can be craven or capricious; heroes and magicians can influence a battle, but won't dominate it.

Anyway, I'm aware I'm playing devil's advocate here, so apologies for that!
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 08:23:22 AM by Hobgoblin »

Offline nandrin

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 08:23:01 AM »

Offline sukhe_bator

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 08:37:09 AM »
Armies of Arcana. Originally designed for 15mm.
Warriors dreams, summer grasses, all that remains

Offline johnl5555

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2017, 06:33:14 PM »
 I am an ex Chicpo FR player from 1st edition thru 2nd. I am currently looking at Mayhem. I am very interested in the battle reports and some of the mechanics. I have played HOTT since it came out. I had fun but my issue is less with the armies and more on the micro focus with positioning of stands. Mighty Armies by Rebel Mini's has some really good things going for it. It would probably be my rule set of choice except that missile fire is not quite balanced in my opinion. I love AoA. It is a lot of fun and you can design your own armies. We have fought saome pretty large battles with it. It is like a very cleaned up, quicker and fun version of WHFB.

Thanks.
Owner JS Wargamer Printing. 3D printing miniatures, buildings and terrain.
https://wargamerprinting.com/

Offline nic-e

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2017, 06:35:44 PM »
Well i haven't finished it but I'll happily send you mine!  lol

Mayhem is meant to be good.
if you're pushed for time you could pick up one hour wargames and homebrew some fantasy rules.
dragon rampant is fairly scale neutral.
never trust a horse, they make a commitment to shoes that no animal should make.

http://mystarikum.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline Nord

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2017, 09:18:37 PM »
Dragon Rampant fails quite a few OP criteria - limits to number of units that can activate, doesn't really differentiate races and factions, no rules for siege. It's large skirmish to my mind, not mass combat.

Offline splinteredlightminis

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2017, 09:23:01 PM »
You might check out Pride of Lions from Splintered Light Miniatures. It has a really cool and fun and unique (I think!) magic system and lots of armies. 

David
Splinteredlightminis.com

Offline Lowtardog

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2017, 10:05:52 PM »
Sword and spear fantasy are my rules of choice

Offline Hobby Services

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Re: Looking for 15mm mass combat rules system
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2017, 12:05:37 AM »
it's a shame that there seems to be so few decent 15mm scale mass combat games out there. Makes me want to start making a game of my own.

There have been at least ten good solid games mentioned on this thread, some of which fit your own requirements and others of which work fine for people who (for ex) like limited troop activations/command points/etc.  I'm not seeing any lack of 15mm mass combat games here.

 

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