Gangs of Rome

[Kommando_J]

This I like to see, censorship is never a good look and the only reason the FB discussions ''calmed down'' is they deleted the threads, insulted everyone pushing against/criticising them...then deleted that thread too...

''Like said, as long as we refrain from personal attacks or sweeping statements about people criticising or looking forward to the game or any part thereof, the topic may be freely discussed. People should just remember; disagreement is no reason to feel offended and even less an excuse to be offensive.''

Exactly, personal attacks are one thing, but if someone gets offended at legit criticisms of the mechanics/marketing...that's on them.

[arget8]

To be fair to the Gangs of Rome guys on Facebook, the couple threads I saw that were later deleted were pretty toxic. One in particular was someone who refused to accept that there could possibly have been female gang members due to a lack of written evidence. When disputed by others who appear to have researched the history and presented their conclusions like real historians, which means making some logical leaps, he doubled down and got aggressive to the point that it would certainly have been locked on this very forum. Other threads that were deleted were generally from people who would roll in, crap on the game because of either the way it's sold or bought, then refuse to listen to any explanations.

I do think that the marketing could have been a little better, especially with the coins, which has everybody freaking out about CCG syndrome and distasteful business practices. However, I've resolved to learn more by listening to podcasts and reading the rules before I pass any sort of judgement on the game or the gents that created it. They seem to be genuinely interested in the period and excited about their game, which is refreshing to me.

Let's just see how things pan out, eh?

[Antonio J Carrasco]

To be fair to the Gangs of Rome guys on Facebook, the couple threads I saw that were later deleted were pretty toxic. One in particular was someone who refused to accept that there could possibly have been female gang members due to a lack of written evidence. When disputed by others who appear to have researched the history and presented their conclusions like real historians, which means making some logical leaps, he doubled down and got aggressive to the point that it would certainly have been locked on this very forum. Other threads that were deleted were generally from people who would roll in, crap on the game because of either the way it's sold or bought, then refuse to listen to any explanations.

I do think that the marketing could have been a little better, especially with the coins, which has everybody freaking out about CCG syndrome and distasteful business practices. However, I've resolved to learn more by listening to podcasts and reading the rules before I pass any sort of judgement on the game or the gents that created it. They seem to be genuinely interested in the period and excited about their game, which is refreshing to me.

Let's just see how things pan out, eh?

My thoughts exactly. The issue with the coins was that they gave an explanation about how they work, that lead to confusion. Also the concept of unique fighter is rather difficult for wargamers to wrap our minds around it. I know I struggled to understand the idea. However once I realized that it only meant that my fighters would have a "personality" of their own and that GoR is a short of skirmish-cum-roleplaying game, rather than a traditional wargame, then I had an easier time at accepting it for what it is instead for what I expected to be.

[Muzfish4]

As a someone who has a casual interest in GoR through seeing a few ads about the place I have found this thread to be pretty useful. I like the miniatures and terrain but really don't know if I'll ever be in a  position to get much play out of them if I 'invest' heavily in either (or both).

I have, as suggested above, subscribed to the newsletter to get the pdf of the rules to see how they affect me. If they look like offering a decent game, particularly with imaginative rules for command and control, I may be tempted but if they don't grab me there's always the Ganesha rules as another option.

Anyway, thank you all for the contributions which have provided food for thought.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Well... we will need to wait a little bit longer until the PDF is released. The 14th December date has been pushed back a few days.

[arget8]

Meeples and Miniatures just did an in-depth interview with Andy Hobday on it if anyone is interested in knowing more.

[Carpathian]

Well, over on Facebook the release of the PDF has been pushed to Dec 22, and one of the authors added a longer post about gang "tuning"; ie using your coins pool for optimal play. 

There appear to be 10 sets of 4 coins each for the first release, with 3(?) special characters--gladiator, agent, and mastiff.  There are plans for future coin sets releases.   Assuming each special character is a "rare" coin, I would guess that means the chance of one of them turning up in each individual gangbanger purchase is 10%...    There is also some explanation of how civilian stands work (Civilians do appear in the Ganesha rules, the problem was always finding enough of them to put on the table.   Yay GOR mob deal )

It does all sound a bit CCG'ish, but give them credit for trying something new.   To state the obvious, an easy make-everyone-happy fix would be to unbundle the cards and coins and sell them in sets of 5 or 10, and the miniatures separately.    Extra purchases of funny cards, dice, tokens (SAGA etc.) are something that most would-be customers are used to. But as someone stated, it is up to the publisher to try any marketing plan they choose.

Not a hater, or not trying to be... Am looking forward to having a look at the PDF

[Poiter50]

Yes, I would love to see cards and coins available separately as I have a significant number of Roman street fighter types as well as civilians/mob figures ready to rumble in the Subura or whichever district they venture to. Carts, wagons, coaches and litters await their role as combatants, NPCs or bystanders.

[jetengine]

Mixing CCG and miniature games is a very mixed bag imo.

[nic-e]

Mixing CCG and miniature games is a very mixed bag imo.

And yet malifaux is doing great.

Maybe this game would have been more well recieved if it had gone FULL CCG and used a blind bag system, you put your gang together entirely through random chance but can get specific mini's by buying gang boxes.

[Kommando_J]

It works better for malifaux as their is no sticky problem of wanting to use your own minis but being unable to as you need to buy the minis to get the cards.

[Rich H]

Indeed, also pretty sure you get exactly what you expect when you buy a mini.

[nic-e]

It works better for malifaux as their is no sticky problem of wanting to use your own minis but being unable to as you need to buy the minis to get the cards.

Does it? If i wanted to play malifuax using minis i already had I'd be in the exact same boat as this game surely? Is it not just that malifuax targets a more "gamey" audience?
This seems like a more casual game in which a little bit of randomness adds to the overall fun and feel of assembling a rag tag gang.I get why people might be annoyed if they want to optimise their lists, but surely working with what you're dealt can be part of the enjoyment?

[axabrax]

The way this company will make money, grow, come out with expansions, and be successful is by selling miniatures. I have little sympathy for the complaint that one has to buy miniatures instead of playing with those one already has. (The coin and CGG aspect complaint seems a bit more legit as it’s a criticism of the actual business model) These miniatures are fantastic and by some of the best sculptors in the business. You only need to buy what, 8 models to play? That’s about the price of taking ones family of four out to dinner at a really mediocre restaurant. Not too much hardship I think.

[Kommando_J]

Malifaux though is quite unique i its style(one of its selling points) one could use proxies but it is not equivalent to all those peeps that did gangs of rome/collect roman minis that now find that they need to buy more minis to use the new rules.

For me its less about optimisation(which I dont care for) and more about customisation/putting my own stamp on things.