Favorite Initiative and Activation Systems

[Codsticker]

I like the LoTR/The Hobbit system; one side has the initiative, movement and shooting is alternative but allows for Heroic interventions.

[Elstree]

What about a card system in which each unit has a card, and each player has their own deck? Each player draws a hand of cards, and activations alternate between players, each playing one card from his hand then drawing a replacement.

This would speed up game play over standard alternating activations by limiting a player's choices (and therefore reducing analysis paralysis), yet still encourage some planning as players look for tactical combos to play in successive turns.

Has anyone seen a system like this? With all the games out there it must be implemented somewhere. C&C does this in a way, but with more generic cards rather than cards specific to each unit.

If you use one card for each unit, you'll still run into the classic problem with alternating activations: what if one player has fewer units than the other? They'll run through their deck more quickly. Perhaps this could be solved by adding dummy cards to the smaller force's deck until they have equal numbers. Playing a dummy card allows that player to chose when they wish to pass.

Here's a diabolical idea: shuffle all the unit cards into a single deck that both players draw from. You'll get some cards for both your own and your opponent's units. Each player still controls his own unit when it activates, but when a unit activates will depends on when its card is played, which could be by either player. So you have to decide when best to play your own cards to your advantage, and when to play the cards for your opponent's units to his least advantage. If you foolishly hold onto all of your opponent's cards until the end of the round then he's going to get a big string of unit activations in a row. (This also might work especially well in multi-player games to break up the turn order so that each player doesn't always follow the same other player.)

This mechanism is really "gamey" and doesn't really simulate anything, so I expect a lot of wargamers will hate the idea. However, it would pose some interesting dilemmas and that appeals to the board gamer in me.

[Belligerentparrot]

I've never played a wide variety of games, so haven't encountered that idea, but... it sounds too random for me. I like a game to have a pretty clear narrative, and too much randomness means too much post-hoc narrative development.

Also, the MtG player in me would immediately want to find a way of drawing more cards than my opponet 

[Charlie_]

IGOUGO (I go-you go): I activate all of my units, then you activate all of your units.
Alternating activations: I activate a unit, then you activate a unit (or maybe a few units at a time, but not the whole force).
Shifting initiative: I continue to activate units until some triggering event causes initiative to pass to you (e.g. Song of Blades and Heroes, Future War Commander, Crossfire)
Fixed queue: the order of activations is determined by a deck of cards containing one card for each unit, which are turned over in turn.

I use homebrew rules with a system sort of between the second and third options.

I won't claim they are unique, and I'm sure some other games use an almost identical activation system (apparently Epic 40,000 had a similar system?)

Basically players take turns to activate units one at a time, but they can 'jump the queue' and act with more than one in a row by passing discipline tests. If the test is failed the unit still gets to take its action later in the turn. Also several units can act together as a group, in certain ways.
All units can usually make one action per turn - there are a few circumstances in which they will fail to act (certain actions requiring a discipline test, or if they roll a double 6 when trying to 'jump the queue'), but generally you can rely on them all acting . You won't have large parts of your forces sitting around doing nothing.
So at times it doesn't really matter who acts when, and the two players can politely activate units back and forth.... but then suddenly something really important might happen... Player A might realise after acting with one unit he needs to quickly move another one up to take an objective before his opponent does... He will then need to test to 'jump the queue' to do so quickly, if he fails his opponent might swoop in and take it before him.

An example... Player A wins the roll-off and chooses to act first.

A moves his cavalry wing forward at full pace.
B moves his skirmishers forward to take up a position behind the wall.
B then passes a discipline test, and moves his light cavalry out towards his opponent's cavalry.
A fires his artillery, causing major casualties on A's light cavalry.
B moves his infantry forward.
B then attempts to pass a discipline test, to jump the queue and fire his artillery, but fails.
A then moves his infantry up for a close-range shoot-out with A's skirmishers, getting them out of A's artillery field of fire in the process.
B then shoots with his artillery, but the prime target he had in front of him earlier has now moved and he has to shoot at a lesser target, which he fails to hit. Curses himself for not shooting them when they were sitting ducks.

[Drunkendwarf]

I like I go you go.
But my favorite is War Gods of Aeyptus alternating unit activation with a iniatiative roll to see who starts the activations each turn.You also add your command rating to the roll so more disciplined leaders have a edge.Plus if you beat your opponent by a significant amount you get to activate extra units. Great fun.
Least fav is card draws, just too random.

Wargods is also one I like (among LotR and M&T), you can even activate an unit of your opponent if it's better for you when they go first!

DJ

[eilif]

I like almost all activations in certain circumstances.

-In KoW and Necromunda IGOUGO seems to work quite well. Maybe alternating would be better, but I don't feel a lack in these games.

-Alternating activation in Mech Attack works quite well.  The small number of units involved, combined with rolling for initiative each turn really makes going first on a turn seem important.

-The betting activation mechanic of Song of Blades and Heroes -and to a lesser extent Dragon Rampant- is a facvorite of mine. I think that technically it's a form IGOUGO (Each player can potentially move all their units before their oppotnent plays), but each unit rolls for activation and a particularly bad roll can end your turn. I don't think it's an ideal choice for a larger scale game but for small scenarios it's a very nice risk/reward system that makes every activation an important choice of whether to play it safe and guarantee (or almsot guarantee) an action or try for something better with increasing risks for failure.

-The randomized draw-from-a-bag activation of Konflikt '47 is something I did not expect to like, but it works quite well balancing the uncertainty of order with the certainty of every unit getting a chance to act unless it is killed.  I don't don't play historicals so I don't know how it feels in it's sister game Bolt Action to players who leant toward historicity. However, in Konflikt '47 it seems to suit the cinematic pulpy vibe  of WWW2

[pauld]

There are 2 types I particularly like

Advanced Song of Blades and Rogue Stars - push your luck and roll up to 3 dice with a target number to activate but each failure gives the opposing side the chance to use those failures to activate their own model before the 1st players own successes act.  RS has more modifiers which add more detail (some don't like this but I do)

Assault Platoon - I nominate a model and outline it's actions and my opponent can nominate a model to react.  Up to 3 actions and reactions can be planned.  Then roll off to see what order all the actions happen in. So if I say Cpl Jones will activate and run across the road to cover on the other side his opponent looking out the window of a farmhouse in line of sight says I will react and shoot Cpl Jones as he makes his dash,  Roll off for priority in the actions.  If Cpl Jones wins he dashes across safely and the opponents action is wasted (perhaps he was scratching his nose and missed the chance to sight on Jones before he ducked behind the hedge) but if he wins he draws a bead and pops one off while Jones is in the open.

Bear in mind I tend to small skirmish so this level of detail works.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, make that 3

Pulp Alley where successes  take the initiative and allow the holder to direct who activates is rather good too.

[Polkovnik]

Another activation system is the one I use in Sword & Spear, which is a bit of a mash-up of Chain of Command, Bolt Action and SoBH:
One dice for each unit (different colour for each side) are placed in a bag. Each turn is split into phases, and in each phase 7 dice are pulled from the bag and are passed to the appropriate player. These command dice are rolled and then allocated to units and will be used to activate those units. The number shown on each dice determines which units it can activate (with better quality units being easier to activate), what the unit can do when activated (higher number required for more difficult action), and the numbers also determine the activation sequence. Dice showing sixes or allocating a unit more than one dice showing the same number can also give bonuses to combat, movement distance or shooting range. When a unit is activated it carries out all of its actions for the turn – which may include movement, shooting and melee combat. These phases are repeated until no dice are left in the bag and the turn ends. Each unit may only be activated once in a turn, and typically between around 60% - 90% of units will be activated each turn.
This activation mechanic keeps both players involved at all times and makes for very interesting and challenging decisions about which units to activate and when.

[SteveBurt]

My favourite is the one used by the old Charles Grant rules in the Wargame (and by Peter Young's Charge rules).
Written orders with simultaneous movement. If you've not ordered the unit to do something (or sent  a courier to change orders) it will keep following orders.
That's how most rules worked back in the day, but it seems to have fallen out of favour.

I'm very impressed with the system in 'Congo' Both players have a set of 7 numbered cards with different combinations of activations to move, shoot or rally. Both sides choose 3 cards secretly at the start of the turn, then you choose one card at a time and both sides reveal it.
High numbers go first; if there is a tie, the side with the initiative decides either to go first and surrender initiative, or go second and keep it.
It's a very neat system which gives both players lots of decisions and keeps both involved at all times.

[Elstree]

My favourite for small skirmish games is the "wheel" system. Each model has a corresponding counter, placed on a wheel/clock dial. When a model activiates, you move its counter back around the wheel a designated number of spaces. When things happen to un-activated units (e.g. takes a hit) they may also be moved back. It gives players a super flexible yet manageable initiative system, and allows for cool effects: e.g. a model under heavy fire will be hard to activate, but that almost certainly allows other models on the same side more freedom of action.

Interesting. Can you give an example of a game that uses this system? It sounds vaguely like the initiative queue system in a board game called Mice and Mystics. Cards for each unit are initially dealt out in a line in random order. Units are activated in that order, except some game effects can cause you to move forward or backwards in the queue. When you reach the end of the queue you return back to the top.

[Menelduir]

Great idea for a thread
So many to chose from...

My current favorite is Pulp Alley.
It has a unique, system which can reflect the ebb and tide of battle. Control of initiative can change due to events happening on the table, not a random die roll, cool.

I too second the old Space Marine game order chits.
Going by memory, order chits are placed face down then revealed in sequence, for instance all fall back, followed by charge, advance fire. First fire allows for snap fire on units that present themselves. Allows a little fog as you will have to wait each round to see what you opponent has ordered.

2 hour Wargames
Roll 2 different coloured dice, high roll activates first with any unit with equal or higher reputation than the number rolled. (reputation typically ranges from 3-5) Some units may not activate.  The active player nominates a unit and activates it. The actions taken by that unit may cause enemy units to activate, so for instance if the active unit charges the target rolls 2 dice to see how they will react. Once that sequence is finished the player with the initiative continues activating units. A variant on IGO UGO, but does mean the one side does not remain static in the face of the enemy.  

Runners up are Bolt Action is good, I too like Sword and Spear with their dice system, and the various draw/deal a card to activate a unit system like Savage Worlds, TSaTF etc

IGOUGO is fine but need interaction, so if combat at least has interaction I may not be as upset, but games that allow an enemy to charge and melee an enemy with limited to no interaction by the defenders are non starters for me.

Ultimately I think games need to be engaging all participants all the time, or else you wind up with those zombie faced, distracted gamers that we have all seen at conventions, and at clubs. Too many times have I seen player attention drift off waiting for their chance to move something, the pace can be mind numbing...

Sorry for the rant.  

[Belligerentparrot]

Elstree - I believe it was a fine upstanding member of this forum who came up with the idea. See here: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=71748.90
 I'm not up to date with how his rules are coming along, but I've been tinkering around with the wheel thingy myself and it is great.

Menelduir - glad to see another 2nd ed. Space Marine fan! One of the coolest aspects was that you had to place orders before you knew who had the iniative for the turn. So you had to plan for multiple contingencies each turn.

[Sir_Theo]

Blood and Plunder is another game with an interesting activation system. You.draw cards from a deck of cards equal to The number of units you.have and then play them by choosing one and comparing it with your oppojents chosen card. The suits have an activation order and different cards allow a.dofferent number of actions etc. Quite a neat little game within a game.

I now it's not unique in using decks.of cards but it's the one I'm most familiar With!

[Elstree]

Thanks for the link to Round of Fire. There's still a link in the first post to an early Google docs version of the rules (v.0.8 ), so I was able to take a look. The time-cost concept is vaguely reminiscent of a board game called Red November.

Menelduir - glad to see another 2nd ed. Space Marine fan! One of the coolest aspects was that you had to place orders before you knew who had the iniative for the turn. So you had to plan for multiple contingencies each turn.

HeroScape does this too: Before each round begins you place your order markers (1,2, and 3) on the cards of the units you want to activate, and in what order. You can place multiple orders on the same card, and there's a decoy marker as well. All this is done before initiative is determined for the round.

[fred]

We've played around a lot with activation systems over the last few years, with various rules. Its often perfectly practical to take activation from one system (e.g. Bolt Action) and bolt it on another (e.g. Kings of War).

But we have moved back to IGOUGO - this is for big battle games, not small skirmishes. We found that all the other activation systems, just slowed the game down so much that we were never finishing games. We found the huge advantage of IGOUGO is the speed of turns (obviously this does depend on the rules, I have played Warhammer games were turns took for ever).

The various random or alternating activation systems can slow down the game hugely - Epic is a good example of this, where you have lots of choice over which formation to activate, and lots of choice over what it can do. This leads to huge amounts of analysis paralysis.

When you have multiple players on a side IGOUGO has lots of advantages as well - as half the players can get on with stuff in parallel. And its only really during movement that the passive player isn't doing much. Once melees start both players are rolling dice. But with multiple players and random activation mechanisms you can have 5 out of 6 players doing nothing while one acts.