New Gripping Beast plastics: Dark Age Cavalry

[aircav]

Yep. I am so with you on that.
I find the ‘we must be grateful and uncritical’ mindset peculiar. But.a lot of wargamers seem to share it. This quality of figures in this set looks quite good to me compared with one or two of GB’s other recent offerings. But it is still near minimal in terms of components and adaptability, and yet they’re still charging the full going rate for a box of plastic figures. Well, if people just accept it, they’ll just keep on doing it.
It would be nice to think that some of the flak they took over the archers set may have made them raise their game a little bit with this set...

The answer is simple then, don’t buy ‘em.  

[Coenus Scaldingus]

I'm sure sales numbers will show the company what works and what doesn't - but only to a certain extent. Looking solely at Gripping Beast's plastics, I was planning to get two kits of cavalry, yet that number has halved because it's not quite what I was hoping for. The archers proved to poor to even consider. Of the unarmoured infantry, I have two sets - they really aren't that great, but so versatile that they came in handy for all kinds of projects, and there's a chance I'll pick up more in future. However, of the plastic Vikings - far superior in many ways, not least the practicality of the poses - I only have one set, for the simple reason I have no need for even 44 armoured Norsemen, let alone more, in my skirmish needs. It's a better kit, but doesn't sell as well.

Based on projects I've seen online, the plastic Arab cavalry has not been overly popular. Substantially more effort would have gone into the two sets of light and heavy cavalry (two full sprues with various additional bodies, detailed shields, weapons, matching armoured arms in case of the heavy cav, a plethora of head designs) compared to the infantry (half-sprues with repeated shields and several weapon arms that already appeared in the unarmoured Dark Age box). A typical SAGA player will get a set of infantry and quite possible just one of the cavalry sets, maybe one of each. If the cavalry took twice the effort to make per box, I can imagine Gripping Beast will take that as a hint to say they shouldn't waste their time with all kinds of optional extras. Indeed, I expect the unarmoured Dark Age infantry has been their biggest seller - a simple kit with mostly just spears, five identical shields and 60% annoyingly moulded left arms. If that (their third plastic set) proved popular, I can imagine they thought it wise to just continue that formula. Perhaps they'd sell more if it was better, perhaps they wouldn't sell as many as would warrant that investment - if this is good enough to guarantee enough sales, they'll probably just go with that.

[Diablo Jon]

It's a bit simplistic to define gamers like this. I play Saga, it's a skirmish game, one box would probably suffice for all my needs. I am not collecting a big army, nor am I kitbashing. I suspect I am not the only gamer that fits this "category", Saga is a popular system.

With the greatest of respect I doubt players of Saga (or any skirmish game) is the target market the manufacturers of plastic miniatures had in mind. If you only need a few miniatures I'm sure the manufacturers would rather sell you more expensive metal miniatures.

The original idea behind 28m plastics was to build big armies cheap. Just look at the Perry twins first plastic offering ACW infantry. Set poses with fixed arms the only options were slouch hat or kepi and a couple of armless bodies and spare arms to build a command. Easy to build cheaper than metals so you could afford lots to play big games.

 Of course plenty of people spotted the potential for conversions in plastic (especially those of us who spent years kit bashing with GW plastics) and love mixing and matching different kits and bits. If you play Saga though and need maybe 20 odd miniatures, you don't want to convert, there is no reason to use plastics, other than personal choice, you might as well use metals and save time on construction imo.

[Davea]

I play basically only SAGA  - I have good "metal" warbands which I spent a decent amount of  time painting and basing.

I recently moved nearly 2 hours drive away from my gaming group, and to save carefully packing up my metal miniature each time I go up there, i am now duplicating the warbands in plastic, so I can literally throw them in a box for when I get the chance to go up there.

These and the other plastic sets are prefect for that.

[Coenus Scaldingus]

If you play Saga though and need maybe 20 odd miniatures, you don't want to convert, there is no reason to use plastics, other than personal choice, you might as well use metals and save time on construction imo.

While small-scale games may not have been the original target market for plastics, they sure have become one. If you can create a full SAGA warband out of a box (actually typically between 37 and 45 figures, more for some forces) rather than metals, it will cost you half as much. If you're new to a game, that's a much lower threshold to cross, if you barely ever play, it's much more attractive to invest little, and if you play loads, you can start twice the number of forces for the same price. I've played quite a bit of SAGA in several groups, and over half the forces were plastic Gripping Beast, Conquest Games or Fireforge. There's a reason the former has started offering a repackaged version of their Vikings and Saxons (alongside unarmoured ones) as 4pt starter warbands, and sells their latest archers explicitely as 1pt/12 men groups of levy. Large forces may have been the original focus, but with the growing popularity of small-scale games, why care if you sell 10 boxes to one person, or 1 box each to 10 people?

[fred]

While small-scale games may not have been the original target market for plastics, they sure have become one. If you can create a full SAGA warband out of a box (actually typically between 37 and 45 figures, more for some forces) rather than metals, it will cost you half as much. If you're new to a game, that's a much lower threshold to cross, if you barely ever play, it's much more attractive to invest little, and if you play loads, you can start twice the number of forces for the same price. I've played quite a bit of SAGA in several groups, and over half the forces were plastic Gripping Beast, Conquest Games or Fireforge. There's a reason the former has started offering a repackaged version of their Vikings and Saxons (alongside unarmoured ones) as 4pt starter warbands, and sells their latest archers explicitely as 1pt/12 men groups of levy. Large forces may have been the original focus, but with the growing popularity of small-scale games, why care if you sell 10 boxes to one person, or 1 box each to 10 people?

Well said. My Saga forces are 90% plastic, as are those of several other players in our group.

Some of us like building plastic figures, its fun to make up the poses, and build with bits from other sets. Even if I don't go to the lengths of cutting arms and legs to reposition figures.

[Nord]

Of course plenty of people spotted the potential for conversions in plastic (especially those of us who spent years kit bashing with GW plastics) and love mixing and matching different kits and bits. If you play Saga though and need maybe 20 odd miniatures, you don't want to convert, there is no reason to use plastics, other than personal choice, you might as well use metals and save time on construction imo.

I take your points, but....

A typical Saga band is six points, many players have seven points or more for a bit of flexibility. That's more like 50 odd miniatures, unless you go ultra elite in your selection. I personally find plastics easier to prep - all those crappy metal minis with their crappy metal claw hands to drill through to fit a spear - it's quicker and easier for me to just assemble the plastic bits. I started with plastics because they were a cheap way in, but also because most of the metals around are just so poor. These days I am more about quality than cost, so I actually have some resin in my collection.  But I know I am the exception rather than the rule. Plastic warbands are very popular though - when I look on the facebook Saga page, I guess around two thirds of the warbands are plastics. So I would (un scientifically) argue that gamers are cheap skates and will go the plastic route more often than not, irrespective of their game system.

[Arlequín]

I actually prefer plastics and cost is not the issue; multiple identical figures within an 'irregular warband' is. There aren't many metal ranges that don't force you to buy multiples of the same three or four figures. With plastics, after you've run out of standard poses, conversion is far less of a chore and indeed mixing and matching across boxes increases your options.

Assembly time for plastics is roughly equal to the time spent cleaning flash and mould lines off metals.

I actively avoid buying metals nowadays unless a range offers enough variety; which effectively translates to not having to buy more than two identical packs of the same figure type.

With later periods troop poses should be more 'regular', so you would expect them to be limited poses, outside of a skirmish line that is. Plastics were supposed to rejuvinate the big battle game, but I don't think those games appeal to the masses as much any more (big battle fantasy didn't either). Within a decade or two they might even seem as quaint as shooting matchsticks at lead soldiers.

*Awaits torch and pitchfork bearing mob* 

[Aerendar Valandil]

"Plastics were supposed to rejuvinate the big battle game, but I don't think those games appeal to the masses as much any more (big battle fantasy didn't either). Within a decade or two they might even seem as quaint as shooting matchsticks at lead soldiers.*

Smaller games, better marketing, more accessible subjects - zombies, WWII - play-out-of-the-box, pre-painted games such as X-Wing and cheaper, better transportable mini's and - her in Europa - far better access simply draw in more players for whom wargaming is more a side hobby than a life fulfillment. The fanatics will still be there, just more diluted.

[Tonhel]

I have avoided metal and to a lesser extend resin for years as I am a huge fan of plastic miniatures.

But lately if the plastic sets are not from Games Workshop, Victrix or the Perry brothers I don't bother anymore.

Look at the metal early HYW range from Claymore Castings or the Anglo-Saxon, Viking, Norman range from V&V miniatures. Amazing and enough different miniatures to have an unique warband. I have recently bought almost all the 28mm V&V miniatures and I am planning to build 3 warbands. Each model in my warband will be unique and the sculpts are highly detailed, realistic and crisp.

The current trend of minimalistic sprues with few options feels as a hobbyist a step backward instead of a step forward.

[Coenus Scaldingus]

Postie delivered a little box today, so here a few pictures of the sprue - building some later this week (painting may take a bit longer).

Full sprue:


Other side:


Close-ups:






Horsies:

[fred]

Thanks for the photos.

They remind me a lot of the Conquest Norman cavalry.

[Nord]

Thanks for those pics, they are very helpful. I think they look better now, I had a few doubts about the horse heads, but they look fine from your pics. Looking forward to an assembled pic or two.