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Author Topic: 18th Century Persians?  (Read 2184 times)

Offline TheBlackCrane

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 774
    • Tales of the Black Crane
18th Century Persians?
« on: November 11, 2017, 12:49:49 PM »
Off on yet another tangent, I've been considering putting together an 18th Century Persian army - so following my relatively unsuccessful scouring of the net, anyone know of sources for appropriate figures in 15mm?

I know I can work around the edges a bit, e.g. some Eastern renaissance types, some earlier, maybe some later Ottomans etc., but I can't find any real options for a good core - are there any?

Thoughts so far:

- I know Grumpy Miniatures has a small Persian/Afghan/Mughal range, doesn't look like sticked by ERM any more (although I can get onto a page with them listed via google, the links to buy are broken and they're not listed on the ERM site direct) - so Eureka would have to be a source, and I'm not sure if they're a bit early for the C18th anyway.

- AB/Fighting 15s Ottomans (the former Black Hat Napoleon in Egypt) range might have some suitable stand ins, although at the 18mm rather than 15mm scale.

- Freikorps 15 (through TSS now) possibly some useful bits from their Turks, or C18th India, ranges?

- Irregular have a small range, but I think they're a case of one-pose only. Since I'm being picky I'm after more variety. Likewise Museum have a range with some which may suffice, but again I think the variety of pose may be lacking.

- By Fire and Sword Ottomans may have some I could promote to the C18th.

Is that a good summation - am I missing any other options? Or is this likely to be a struggle!

Thanks

Rob

Offline sakura11

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 102
Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 01:02:08 PM »
Khurusan maybe
Irregular Caucasus
Cheers rob

Offline winder

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 33
Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 03:46:50 AM »
http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/qajar-persians.html

Khurasan do a somewhat limited range in 15mm.

Not what you asked but black hussar miniatures do a wonderful range in 28mm

Offline Moriarty

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 311
Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 09:21:08 PM »
HI there,

do you have the war-games magazine articles from some years back? They had art work that may help to ID alternative figures. If not, sing out and I'll check the archives here (shiver) to see where my copies went to.

As for figures, Warrior Miniatures do the old Gallia range of Colonials, including Afghans.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 09:33:31 PM by Moriarty »

Offline Moriarty

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 311
Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 10:14:22 PM »
Found the articles if you need them.

Offline sukhe_bator

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1620
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Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2017, 01:32:24 PM »
Be wary, the quality and accuracy of the figures varies wildly which you will run into when you have to cast far and wide for similar or proxy figures... some of the back catalogues and sites don't have images - so you'd be buying blind. The older ranges in particular tend to be less historically accurate
and blend less well with more recent releases. Warrior and Gallia colonials in particular.
Unless you want to end up with an Afghan army, since Afghans are the go-to proxy figures for most of the middle eastern and asian armies. :(
There's more figure scope in 25mm, but it lends itself less to the warfare in 'wide open spaces'. Dont' be afraid to broaden the scope of the periods in 15mm. You can get away with more variation in detail, particularly armament, if the core figure is close enough.
For example, for my Qajar Persians (pre Khurasan figures) I used Cossacks from the renaissance to Napoleonic periods for lambswool hatted, loose robed cavalry with riding boots. 
Warriors dreams, summer grasses, all that remains

Offline sukhe_bator

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1620
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Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2017, 01:37:22 PM »
P.s This is my embryonic 'New Order' brigade formed by Prince Abbas Mirza ca.1806. Infantry are in French, British and Russian liveries reflecting the varied missions to align Persian interests with the European powers. They are converted Nap. Ottoman Minifigs Nizam-i-Jedid, with Cossack cavalry, Irregular camel guns and Old Glory 15s Cossack artillerymen.

Offline sukhe_bator

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1620
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Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2017, 01:38:33 PM »
Zamburaks (camel guns) were in use in the Persian army until famously encountered by Outram in 1856.

Offline TheBlackCrane

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 774
    • Tales of the Black Crane
Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2017, 06:20:42 PM »
Thanks all, truth be told I didn't realise anyone had replied to my post!  :D

but it lends itself less to the warfare in 'wide open spaces'. Dont' be afraid to broaden the scope of the periods in 15mm. You can get away with more variation in detail, particularly armament, if the core figure is close enough.
For example, for my Qajar Persians (pre Khurasan figures) I used Cossacks from the renaissance to Napoleonic periods for lambswool hatted, loose robed cavalry with riding boots. 

Definitely want to stick to 15s, much more open, despite the difficulty of finding suitable figures.


Moriaty - I don't no, but if you've got copies of the articles I could get hold of it would be much appreciated! I'll PM you.

I'd thought about Khurusan's Qajar Persians, are they a bit too late for C18th or would they work too?

Thanks!


Offline sukhe_bator

  • Mastermind
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Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 02:21:53 PM »
I'm not an expert in this period but from my general reading of this era, given the continuity in the use of arms and armour in the middle east, an early Safavid army would be best represented with a mix of more medieval than renaissance looking troops for the bulk of the 'come as you are' proportion of the army. If you are looking towards the end of the Safavid period and the period of Nadir Shah and repeated invasions of Mughal India up until the onset of the Qajars in the 1790's then the mix would be more renaissance looking troops inspired by Ottoman military practice. You could also get away with some more 'traditional' looking Qajar troops. Beyond the 1790's European military practices and appearance, Russian, French and later British began to surface.
With a bit of ingenuity you can re-task troops in Indo-Persian gear, barring those troops who had distinctive headgear etc. In that instance, don't be afraid of headswaps and conversions, which are easier in 15mm. It'll take a little research, but best confine yourself to a specific period or campaign and take it from there. Look around periods within the same timeframe and geographical area because there was considerable crossover, with regionally distinctive troops often serving as mercenaries in different armies...

P.s; If you want to see Napoleonic Qajars in action The Hermitage Museum has a wide selection of paintings representing clashes with the Russians.

Offline Stecal

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 308
    • Pictures of my minis
Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2017, 03:38:05 AM »
Clear the battlefield and let me see
All the profit from our victory.

Offline Moriarty

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 311
Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2021, 11:19:43 AM »
Admit it. You just want to field camels with swivel guns :-)

Offline William Bath 2

  • Schoolboy
  • Posts: 8
Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2021, 09:57:50 AM »
Khurasan Miniature stopped their Qajar Persian do to lack of interest.

Offline sultanbev

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 61
Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2021, 10:11:29 AM »
I have a huge 15mm Napoleonic Qajar Persian army, all Irregular Miniatures, but it only covers 1795-1830s, so a bit late for your 18th century needs. As I'm converting all my Napoleonics to 10mm, they will be going up for sale at some point on the Minis Barter site.

Pre-Qajar it was the Zand Persians, which tended to have toll domed hats rather than the tall furry pointed hats, like this:

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/782007922767608513/

Irregular Miniatures do tend to have more than one pose for each listed casting but as stated, the range is limited.

Found an article on the Zand Persian armies here:
https://iranicaonline.org/articles/army-iv#prettyPhoto


Mark

Offline fastolfrus

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5247
Re: 18th Century Persians?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2021, 11:03:41 AM »
Any thoughts on possible 25/28mm figures for the 1722 Russo-Persian war?
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

 

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