Explaining WW2 rules by type (2nd attempt page 2)

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Does this make sense?

"Organisation of an Army

Many games are described using military organisational terms such as squad, platoon, company, battalion et. Here is a very rough guide to the terms and their implications in terms of size of the force.

Fire team – This is a modern term for 3-4 soldiers working together. The US Army introduced the concept late in WW2. At the start of WW2, armies had a squad as the lowest building block.
Squad - A German army squad was 13 men in 1939 but this reduced to 10 in 1940.
Platoon - A platoon or "Zug" was three squads plus machine gun support, so a platoon was 43 men in 1939 reducing to 34 later.
Company – An infantry company was three platoons plus mortar and machine gun support, logistics and command groups. A company was 154 to 181 men.
Battalion - Three companies plus support and command is a battalion. An infantry battalion was 660 to 741 men
Regiment - Three battalions plus support and command. A regiment was circa 2,000 to 2,500 men
Brigade - Two or more regiments can join to form a brigade.
Division - Several infantry regiments plus tanks and artillery joined together form a division.  A division in WW2 was circa 20,000 – 25,000 men.
Corps – Two or more Divisions could be combined to form a Corps of 50,000 men or more.
Army- A field army is a combination of two or more corps. Therefore, an army implies 100,000 to 125,000 men.
Army Group- Two or more Armies form an Army Group. This was at least 250,000 men. At any one time during WW2, the Germans were organised into at least 10 Army Groups."

Thanks


Mick

[moiterei_1984]

You now have a nice rundown on the different organisational units in an army but not really something that translates these military into gaming terms.
Do you really think you need a typification for your book? I would think that it‘d be mostly bought by peaople who are already into wargaming.

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Here is a rewrite of page 1 which will come after the post above

Types of Wargames

Tabletop wargames are often played on a table that is about 120cm x 180cm. It can be much larger for club games or smaller for games at home.  Here are some types of wargames with examples.

Squad to Platoon Skirmish
Usually infantry combat involving less than 40 figures per side and a few vehicles. These are typically played with 28mm figures based individually on 25mm circles. Heavy weapons and artillery are often based as a weapon with crew. Occasionally squads are represented by a group of figures on a base.
•   Bolt Action
•   Chain of Command
•   Iron Cross
•   Nuts

Company to Battalion Level Battles
Combat with more than 100 figures per side and several vehicles. These are typically played with 15mm or 20mm figures. Figures are often grouped two or three to a base.  
•   Battlegroup
•   Crossfire
•   Flames of War
•   I Ain’t Been Shot Mum
•   Rapid Fire

Brigade and Division Level Battles
These are typically played with 6mm or 10mm figures. Formations of either platoons or companies are represented by small groups of figures on a base.
•   Command Decision
•   Spearhead

Corps to Army Level Battles
These are typically played with 6mm figures. Formations of battalions or companies are represented by small groups of figures on a base.
•   Great Battles of WW2
•   Panzer Korps
•   Megablitz
•   Rommel

[vodkafan]

It seems to be getting there. My only niggle is that Crossfire and IABSM are in the wrong category. They are both Company level games.

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Fixed Crossfire and IABSM

[Arlequín]

Pedantic maybe, but the French introduced the fire team concept in 1918; along with 'bounding overwatch' or 'fire and movement' as it's more usually called. The Spanish Army had its rifle sections divided into three fire teams from 1927.

In the U.S. Army fire teams were not to become an official entity until after the Korean War, despite units like the Rangers having used them during WWII.

[MartinR]

There are also many instances of platoons, companies and battalions having four sub units (sections, platoons and rifle companies) s, so I'd go with 3-4 in each case.

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Dear Martin and Arlequin

The book is about WW2 Germans.

Did The Germans use fireteams as a concept / doctrine?
I recall reading somewhere that Panzergrenadiers in the late war period were organised in squads with two Mg 42, so that implies that there were two fire teams.

Did the Germans have four platoons to a Company etc. I have only seen notes describing three.

Best Regards


Mick

[Arlequín]

Fire team – This is a modern term for 3-4 soldiers working together. The US Army introduced the concept late in WW2. At the start of WW2, armies had a squad as the lowest building block.

The book is about WW2 Germans.

Did The Germans use fireteams as a concept / doctrine?

Mick I've no idea if the Germans used fire teams. I only mentioned them because you included them in the first place.

I'm far from expert on the Germans but I am aware that German infantry platoons changed from three sections of thirteen men to four sections of ten men in 1940 and then changed again to three sections of nine men from 1943, as indicated in the relevant KStN visualised as follows;

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131a2nov37.htm
http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131c1feb41.htm
http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131n1okt43.htm

There are a number of variations to these, but the numbers of men per section, if not their equipment, remains the same. Only the Panzer-Grenadiers seem to have had platoons of three ten-man sections supplemented with additional section IMG, bearing in mind that two men per section were vehicle crew; so only eight dismounts in effect..

[MartinR]

The official organisation of German infantry platoons until 1943 was  four rifle sections, although in the field this often reduced to three. Even after the platoon reduced to three sections, the fourth LMG remained in the platoon (officially, at any rate).

In some instances, there were also four rifle platoons in the companies, but this ceased around 1942.

In the main though, three rifle companies of three platoons of three sections is a reasonable approximation. The distribution s and types of mortars, tripod MGs and anti tank weapons varied a fair bit through the war though.

No, the Germans didn't use a fireteam concept, although in principle the rifle group could operate semi independently under certain circumstances, generally they fought as sections, even the units with two LMGs (motorised infantry, dismounted Armoured infantry and later war Fallschirmjager).

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Dear MartinR and Arlequin,

Thank-you both for the clarifications. I will adjust the text based on your comments.

If you are interesting in reading the draft, please send me a PM.

Best Regards

Mick

[czaki]

Five men in Normandy - squad level skirmish rules, 4-6 figures per side, 15-28mm scale, 2'x2' to 4'x4' table size. No morale and NCO rules, but pinning mechanism. Good for fast and "as film" story, with good narrative aspect. Campaign rules included also. Very interesting turn sequence rules. Mechanics based on d6.

Normandy Firefight - ultra skirmish rules, 3-5 figures per side (ideal for one figure per player). Basically for 54mm miniatures but with conversion rules for 28mm and 20mm scales. One turn is aprox. 2 seconds in real time. Machanics based on d100 (percentage). Detailed rules with limited ammo. In the game we defined stance for figure (kneeling, prone ect.) Good for conventions/club gaming - You can't talk about tactics while playing.