Silmarillion and other Fantasy Stuff. Oathmark Elf, Dwarf and Mongrel Human

[Severian]

Properly troll-like! Good stuff. The lumps and texturing work very well.

I've always thought the distinction between trolls and ogres was a fairly tenuous one in any event...

I'm with you with Bones for larger creatures - much easier to handle (and a good deal cheaper) than a metal equivalent. Man-sized or smaller, less straightforward...

[Mr.J]

I continy to find your thread a great source of inspiration. Well done.

[Diablo Jon]

Properly troll-like! Good stuff. The lumps and texturing work very well.

I've always thought the distinction between trolls and ogres was a fairly tenuous one in any event...

I'm with you with Bones for larger creatures - much easier to handle (and a good deal cheaper) than a metal equivalent. Man-sized or smaller, less straightforward...

Have to agree about the bones stuff they are great for big creatures man sized stuff I'd rather have in metal.

I think growing up with D&D my idea of trolls look quite different to ogres but other setting seem to make them much less obvious or different.

[Little Odo]

They look great the way you have textured and painted them. Suitably brutish.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Finally, the Balrog.  Painted with the help of many on this forum.  Thank you all who contributed.
I have decided not to try OSL (object source lighting), mainly because I don't think I have the skills to pull it off, partly I want to just have a sharp contract between light and dark.
Again, the photos are poor, but you get the idea.
I do have one question, what does a spirit of fire need bags and pouches for?

[beefcake]

Very nice. I really like how the whip looks super hot at the base and moves to cooler at the tip. That is very well done. Bags and pouches... Extra matches for his hair?

[Hobgoblin]

That's a great balrog! The pouches might not be ideal, but the overall look of the model - and the paintwork - are spot on.

I'm curious: did you consider leaving the sword and turning the mace into a whip? It works fine as you've done it, but to my eye, it looks an easier conversion the other way (given that the mace haft forms quite a nice whip handle).

Anyway, terrific stuff! He looks a bit like one of John Blanche's balrogs, as glimpsed in the distance in his Fall of Gondolin.

[Severian]

Yes, well done - very effective paintjob and a nice conversion.

Perhaps the bags & pouches might contain spare flammable cordage, to be turned (as occasion requires) into the famous "thong of fire" as used in Nirnaeth Arnoediad? My other thought was supplies of matches and/or lighter fuel, just in case...

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Bags full of marshmallows to roast on his own head.

[Daeothar]

Pretty cool and considering the sources mentioned, also pretty much spot on. (perhaps the pouches hold trohpies taken off worthy opponents?).

My source of Tolkien images, whilst I read the three books (the Hobbit, LotR and the Silmarillion) back in the eighties, is firmly based in the early nineties. Especially the ICE RPG books and some artwork from a couple of Tolkien based PC games. And I was also heavily influenced by the large demon from the Hero Quest game...

And those already worked with images of the (Moria) Balrog as a huge, winged demon. So that's how it looked in my head. In fact, it's one of the images from Peter Jackson's movies that worked out perfectly with my headcanon (bar the head; I had a more lionesque head, with a snout in mind, obviously). I also think that GW has always been basing their different incarnations of the Bloodthirster on the Balrog from these sources.

Only now do I realise that I (together with many artists and a director) have always interpreted the teksts wrong. Going by the posted quotes, it's not a giant, and it's not winged at all.

Who knew eh?

Ethelred; what mini did you use as a base for this one?

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Hi Daeothar.  The figure is Gronk the Bugbear from Reaper.  There are other bugbears without the pouches and bags, but they didn't have the same "flaming" hair.
I think the problem with Tolkien is that he seldom gives a detailed description, and what he does give can be contradictory.  I still have no idea how big Carcharoth or Huan would be.  Cacharoth was too big to fit in a den, but was small enough to hide in a thicket when being hunted by Beren and Thingol.  I get the impression that Huan might have been the size of a small pony (i.e. big enough to ride, but small enough to visit Luthien in her captivity in Nargothrond).  If Carcharoth was truly enormous Huan would never be able to fight him.
We get the same types of issues with trolls and Balrogs.  The nature of wargs and werewolves is uncertain. 
He wasn't even sure himself as to where orcs came from.

I read somewhere the theory that the Silmarillion was written as a story that had been passed on from the elves to men and in this telling is many generations old.  So it is now something of a tertiary source and corrupted through multiple retellings.

I have softened on my thoughts about Balrogs.  They may just be generic demons.  Like demons, they can come in different forms and some may be winged and others not.  For me, however, I will stay with wingless.

[Loop]

I think the problem with Tolkien is that he seldom gives a detailed description, and what he does give can be contradictory.
[....]
We get the same types of issues with trolls and Balrogs.  The nature of wargs and werewolves is uncertain. 
He wasn't even sure himself as to where orcs came from.

With respect I think that is a strength rather than a weakness of his work.

My feelings can basically be summed up by a lot of the discussion in the “Orcs and the gamification of Middle Earth” thread but put simply; I hate the way that so many gamers seem to need everything codified. I love to use my imagination, the last thing I want is a definative version of...well anything really.

I don’t know if this is a symptom or a cause of the “...every miniatures range has to have it’s on rules” mindset.

Personally I grew up listening to the wonderful BBC radio play of Lord of the Rings, read the Hobbit, (saw the Hobbit as an outdoor play near Lancaster aged 8 or 9, a favourite childhood memory)read lotr and then saw the films. I do like the films but I’m glad I didn’t get my first impressions of Middle Earth from them.

I read somewhere the theory that the Silmarillion was written as a story that had been passed on from the elves to men and in this telling is many generations old.  So it is now something of a tertiary source and corrupted through multiple retellings.

I think I’ve heard something similar (though whether it was about the Silmarillion or not I can’t remember) and I love this this idea.

I love your threads Ethelred, and I enjoy the posts you post on the Oathmark Players page too (I don’t actually post there myself though).

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Loop, you are absolutely correct that as a story, Tolkien's works are great in that the descriptions are vague.  It is a problem for those sad bastards (like myself) who treat it like history (although, truth be told, I do like imagining these stories in my own way - I just want everyone to agree with my version  ).

By the way, I also liked the BBC radio play of LotR - I think I was home from university when I listened to this.

[Daeothar]

I read somewhere the theory that the Silmarillion was written as a story that had been passed on from the elves to men and in this telling is many generations old.  So it is now something of a tertiary source and corrupted through multiple retellings.

I can confirm I read this somewhere too (although I can't name the source). The entire notion elevated Tolkien's work even more in my eyes.

I always figured that, given time and some convoluted happenings, some future people might find both the Silmarilion and the Bible and, devoid of any context, might read them in the same way. In some ways, I think that was Tolkien's intent, aside from giving a cultural base to his languages.

It can certainly read like that, making his efforts in making the book read like passed on traditions effective.

As for Balrogs being generic demons; yes. I've always seen the Valar and Maiar as equivalent angels, and Morgoth's many creations as demons of different levels (he himself being a fallen angel after all). So to me, the Balrogs have always been the prototype demons I suppose.

And as Loop mentioned; explaining each and every little aspect of a setting will completely strip it of any mystery, possibilities and even life. The great thing about Tolkien's books is that there is so much left open, for the reader's mind to fill in (or not). The greatest settings are all like that. But there seems to be a drive in people to fill up any gap they find in the setting they're writing for/in.

Star Wars lost all its allure and sense of being set in a vast and mysterious universe by writer upon writer trying to shoehorn their story into the gaps left by other writers, so it has become a stiffing blanket of mediocrity (as much as I love Star Wars, it's true).

The same goes for the Horus Heresy in 40K; it used to be described as a a mystical time, 10,000 years past, with most information now lost and faded into myth and legend. It had most of the elements of a Genesis-like story, with all the vagaries associated with it (like the Silmarilion). I loved the mythical feel any mention of the heresy had back in the day (in the Space Marine rule book for instance).

And then Black Library came out with their books. At first, I thought they were great (finally; we get to know what 'really' happened), but then (as the writing quality started to decline as well) it dawned on me that all the mystery was disappearing. Now it's another completely fleshed out setting, without any room for imagination.

I suppose we're lucky that Tolkien's work has always stood on its own, and no additional works have been published or allowed (aside from some of Christopher Tolkien's writings). It has preserved the mystery we all so love about his works, and has also given room for this one fan writing from the point of view of Sauron's forces (which actually enforces the notion that the original books were stories, written down by the victors). And which, not accidentally, gives us cause to have these fun discussions

Ethelred; thanks for telling us the miniature your Balrog has been based on; I might not blatantly copy it when I come around to actually doing a Balrog, but it has certainly provided much food for thought!

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

After a couple of test runs I thought it was time to finally get my game mats sorted out.  I have boards for Napoleonics games, but wanted something that looked a bit more wild for my fantasy figures.  I also wanted something that could comfortably have terrain pieces plonked on top and not have figures falling over (as with teddybear fur).

This is garage carpet, lightly spray painted to dull it, and then lots of static grass.