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Author Topic: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!  (Read 11166 times)

Offline Ninefingers

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #105 on: December 29, 2017, 07:57:51 AM »
I have become so sick of the hype, the Star Wars pajamas/napkins/vitamins/pencils/clothing/everything to sponge off a few $$$ from the movies.

It was ever thus, even in 1977. There was a reason Lucas was happy to take the merchandising rights...

Offline Pijlie

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #106 on: December 29, 2017, 08:12:05 AM »
In short, I enjoyed the movie. Not bored for a moment the entire 150 minutes.  :D
I wish I were a glowworm
'cause glowworms 're never glum
How can you be grumpy
When the sun shines out yer bum?

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Offline Gibby

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #107 on: December 29, 2017, 09:24:59 AM »
But yeah, it was all right. I enjoyed it while it was happening. That's about all I have to say. Star Wars just isn't important enough to me to get either super-hyped or massively disappointed any longer.

My thoughts exactly. After seeing the reaction to TLJ (on the wider web, rather than here) and remembering the hysterical excitement people had for TFA (crying with joy because the Millennium Falcon was in the trailer?!) I have come to realise that Star Wars is just not important enough to me to be worked up over... and in my case I don't think it ever was.

Offline ErikB

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #108 on: December 29, 2017, 05:20:38 PM »
You must have blinked at the wrong moment. Later in the film, you see that Rey had taken the books with her.

So when he said the temple contains nothing she does not already have, being the same old Yoda he was. :D
Hanging out at the Falcon, barbecuing one of the merchandising opportunities. :)
Hahahaha...!

I didn't see that she took the books.  I must have blinked or been watching my kids and their reactions to the movie.  That's even more fun than Star Wars.  <3

I saw that scene with Chewie grilling those little merchandising opportunities.  I just couldn't imagine him doing it for THAT long.  Would have liked to have seen a little more of what he was up to.

It did surprise me that Luke did not interact much with R2D2 or Chewie.  I can see Luke being horribly depressed and burnt out but these were old friends who never did him wrong.  They are also sentimental symbols in Star Wars.

Offline The Voivod

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #109 on: December 29, 2017, 07:22:55 PM »
Having seen it the first time with my mates, I went with my boys today (age 7 and 10).
They both loved it, the youngest despite not being able to read subtitles yet. He was far less finnicky in the cinema then he is when we watch a movie at home.
Watching a star wars movie with my sons on the big screen was a wonderfull daddie-moment.

I was a bit dissappointed on first viewing, but was actually allready coming round. And I must say, I actually came out the second time liking it quite a bit.
The humor seemed less grating, when you expect it and several themes of the movie are actually set up pretty well.

The prequels I ended up liking less with each viewing. This one seems to have the opposite effect.
It's not just that I want to like it, mind you.
I want to like the prequels to and I loath those...
'Mercy? I am far to brave to grant you mercy.'

Offline dinohunterpoa

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #110 on: December 29, 2017, 11:01:32 PM »
It did surprise me that Luke did not interact much with R2D2 or Chewie.  I can see Luke being horribly depressed and burnt out but these were old friends who never did him wrong.  They are also sentimental symbols in Star Wars.

Mark Hamill has talked about this one; he said it was not Luke Skywalker, because good old Luke had a big and warm heart and loved his friends very much, but a completely new guy called Jake Skywalker!  lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYIAVvNH8rE

« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 11:03:34 PM by dinohunterpoa »
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Offline Sir_Theo

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #111 on: December 29, 2017, 11:16:55 PM »
I spent most of the day playing the single player campaign  for the computer game 'Battlefront 2', which is a sort of Star wars greatest hits. I've been Luke, Han, Leia  and Lando as well as a First order spec ops lady. Lots of fun.

Offline dinohunterpoa

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #112 on: December 30, 2017, 12:11:20 AM »
I spent most of the day playing the single player campaign  for the computer game 'Battlefront 2', which is a sort of Star wars greatest hits. I've been Luke, Han, Leia  and Lando as well as a First order spec ops lady. Lots of fun.


Offline Vanvlak

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #113 on: January 08, 2018, 06:13:34 AM »
Went yesterday; it was fun, and I enjoyed it.  :D

Only disappointment came from realising:
I am glad six-year-old Plynkes from 1977 isn't here to see me say that.
Plynkes is younger than me.

Offline Elk101

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #114 on: January 08, 2018, 06:35:42 AM »
I wanted to like it, I really did.  :(

Offline Andym

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #115 on: January 08, 2018, 07:30:35 AM »
I wanted to like it, I really did.  :(

You can only try sooo hard though mate! ;)

When the studio seem to think a good story for a two and a half hour film is a slow, slumbering star ship chase through space, you just can’t try to like it hard enough I’m afraid!

Bad film!

Offline Manchu

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #116 on: January 08, 2018, 07:50:43 AM »
Yes, I think pretty much everyone would prefer to live in a world where new SW movies are good ... rather than the world we do live in.

 ;)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 09:35:43 AM by Manchu »

Offline Daeothar

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #117 on: January 08, 2018, 08:42:30 AM »
I was a bit dissappointed on first viewing, but was actually allready coming round. And I must say, I actually came out the second time liking it quite a bit.
The humor seemed less grating, when you expect it and several themes of the movie are actually set up pretty well.

Couldn't agree more; the same has happened to me.

When bias is left at the door, the film is actually pretty good (except the Leia space walk; that's the Indy fridge scene all over again and it's the one element of the film I really don't like).

It's no Rogue One, but it certainly is no Phantom Menace either...
Miniatures you say? Well I too, like to live dangerously...
Everybody has a plan, until they get punched in the face - Mike Tyson

Offline Elk101

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #118 on: January 08, 2018, 08:46:17 AM »
You can only try sooo hard though mate! ;)

When the studio seem to think a good story for a two and a half hour film is a slow, slumbering star ship chase through space, you just can’t try to like it hard enough I’m afraid!

Bad film!

"Fleeing from the Cylon First Order tyranny..."

Offline FramFramson

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #119 on: January 14, 2018, 08:55:12 AM »
Alright I finally saw this with the wife and a friend today, and I Have Some Thoughts.

We had free tickets and so decided to experience the novelty of 4DX just to see what it was like (result: unimpressive and even mildly annoying).

There things I liked and didn't like, but dislike did win out in the end and the more I think about it, the sourer the taste it leaves.

The quick version is that much of the story of TLJ is a bloated bodge job that falls apart under any scrutiny (especially anything related to the prolonged Resistance's sloowwww escape effort), but there were some very good performances mid-movie by Rider and Ridley. Overall they probably could have been trimmed a lot.

My biggest takeaway is that Rian Johnson chickened out of taking Star Wars in a new and (what would have been) interesting and more mature direction. It would have given Rey and Ren more agency and really strengthened them overall as characters. Instead Rian backed away to return Star Wars to its simplistic dualistic roots.

Basically The "Grey Jedi" concept from the EU, that the Force is inherently neutral, or is at least a Yin-Yang sort of system (as with the original Daoist sources Star Wars mysticism was somewhat based on) rather than an actual defined "good" and "evil" in the traditional Judeo-Christian sense, should have been embraced.

Luke's repudiation of the Jedi could have stood, and been clearly based on valid grounds such as citing their dangerously repressive aspects, their rigid theocratic history, and a starkly reductionist worldview which only saw in terms of black and white. He could have talked about how anyone wielding the force outside the order was deemed at least dangerous, if not outright evil and how most "Dark" Jedi were in fact regular Jedi who'd either broken with the order or failed in their discipline somehow - that the Jedi were their own worst enemy.

If instead Luke had come to a realization that the Force does not have a strictly good or evil side to it, that it only carries what you bring to it, or that you can have a blend of beliefs with some light and some dark without actually being "Evil", that could have brought a more mature concept of the Force to fans, and strengthened Rey's and Kylo's characters, giving them more agency and more possibilities (and still would have tied in to certain aspects of the OT, like the Dagobah cave). Johnson toys with this notion, coming so very close to embracing it... only to back away at the last minute to retain the OT's simplistic dualistic good-vs-evil conception of the universe.

Kylo and Rey would have (and should) have been thereby freed to reach a detente, run away together, or even build something entirely new, with the Force being open to far more people than it had during the reign of the Jedi.

Instead they reduced Kylo to a one-dimensional 100% pure villain, with no redeeming characteristics or interesting features. A comment has been going around that where the original Empire were essentially defined as Nazis, Kylo represents the Nazis of our era - pasty whinging white guys in basements who idolize the nazis of an imagined past that never existed. Based on his character arc crashing out by the end of TLJ, I've decided Kylo is nothing more than "Tiki Torch Vader".

It's not a question mark either. Rian Johnson hammer it home as hard as he can that Kylo Ren is now pure evil evil evil through and through. As a result, he's written Abrams into a corner such that Episode 9's resolution is almost certain to be really lame.

If they defeat/kill Kylo, well. Okay. Villain defeated. Boring.

If he's turned, it's after he's embraced the path of evil more deeply Vader ever did, which would make for an incredibly lame ass-pull. First, it's established that while he was wavering at the beginning of the movie, he's firm at the end and more than willing to kill Leia ("No prisoners"? Boy, you are no Peter O'Toole... you're just a tool). Also, both Leia and Luke have pronounced him irredeemable. Vader did many horrible awful things, but they spent all three original movies establishing how trapped Vader felt, how he was a prisoner of destiny and the Emperor's will, and that to resist them was futile. Kylo has no such excuse. He clearly beat the only master he still felt beholden to, and didn't even really have a hard time doing so. He could do anything now, but he has clearly chosen to go "full Hitler" as it were (maybe in keeping with the modern neo-nazi comparison his excuse will be "But I was just joking bro! I only did it for the lulz!" hah).  

If they DO go for a "Grey Jedi" resolution in the end where some sort of middle ground is reached, it's going to be REALLY AWKWARD after Kylo's been established as more evil then Vader, and after they had a PERFECT setup to do that in this movie, only to reject it.

Besides that, I found Luke's "moment of weakness" to be extremely out of character. For a person who spent three movies growing from whiny youth to a confident hero, that was a failure TLJ simply couldn't sell. If Luke had the wisdom and strength to confront the Emperor, he should have had the same wisdom and strength to deal with Kylo in just about any other way than panicking like some rank amateur. SURELY he would have foreseen that some of his students might go bad and come up with some sort of contingency.

The last thing I want to add is that it actually really upsets me how the sequels have gone out of their way to make every character in the OT suffer.

Every success they won is undone. Their lives after RotJ are depicted as ones of failure and sorrow and pain. Everything they did is meaningless. That's a fucking gut-punch when you realize it. The sequels essentially took one of Cinema's greatest happy endings of all time and sets out to not just destroy it, but invalidate it as if it had never been.

I mean, is the sequel trilogy screenplay writer secretly GRRM? (No wonder the next GoT book's taking so long!) Is that the theme of the art of our age? That there's no hope, no victory, only defeat and failure and and suffering?

Ultimately I feel the prequels were an example of solid fundamentals but disastrous execution (I would give anything for a properly done prequel trilogy), while the sequels have sound execution but are built on horrible fundamentals.

I think the franchise has essentially become a prisoner of itself. Whether you blame the fan demands, the money-men, George Lucas, or whoever, it doesn't really matter, there's so many expectations and it's so "sacred" that there's always going to be too many meddling cooks and too much second-guessing of things to produce anything that stands on it's own rather than leaning heavily on the the originals.

I now doubt they'll ever recapture the lightning-in-a-bottle that was the OT. Not in the Star Wars universe.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 09:04:35 AM by FramFramson »

 

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