.45 LC Adventure

[Gunslinger]

Is there a .45 Long Colt Adventure in the future?

I think the .45A system would lend itself well to the Wild West...

Pat

[zbyshko]

i ws thinking a very similar thing as i was reading through Gloire and assembling some Whitewash City Paper Building tonight.

I'm building a town to have a game of All Things Zombie at the next Cold Wars with a friend, but i can see the .45 Adventures/Gloire rules working in "the Old West"

i made a comment to a friend how i thought the Gloire rules really captured for a tabletop wargame the feel of an old Errol Flynn movie (i know we're in the Old West forum, one second please) but i think some subtle and some overt modification to the rules engine could just as well capture and old Western movie feel.  as for the reference to .45 Adventures - i was just recalling how some of the early John Wayne pictures were westerns in geoghraphy but had some cars, telephones and oil instead of cattle, set contemporary to the filming - 1930's-ish, so the figures wear different hats.  Hell, even Roy Rogers could make an appearence, but not without Gabby Hayes.

as for a "soundtrack" ... well let's not go there.  the bullets may fly for real if'n i mention both kind'a music: County AND Western!!  :mrgreen:  some folks don't appreciate good sounding yodeling cowpoke or a mournful ballad  

[Argonor]

I already enquired about that, and Rich told me, that eventually they'd probably make a Wild West version - but not in the next two years or so, as they have their hands full with other projects....

[mahon]

but it's actually pretty easy to customize .45 or Gloire to Old West games...

horses are covered, firearms are there too, you would even easily find usable archetypes in the books

[Operator5]

You would probably have to make some slight changes to the firearms. Add in single shot derringers and muskets (before they have to reload) and get rid of the smg.

The only thing truly not covered would be the showdown. Two guys, middle of the street, each trying to stare the other down. I've mulled some ideas in my head regarding guts checks and such, but have not put anything down yet.

The rest is coming up with archetypes and special abilities to fit the period. You'd probably want to expand on horses a bit, but you should be able to add the Heroic horse from Gloire in to cover that.

[PeteMurray]

The dueling rules for Gloire would be where I'd start for showdown rules. I might also make misfires or jams happen more frequently since the primers during this period just weren't very reliable.

The core rules for .45 Adventures would be useful for Old West gaming (they're good mechanics and you can use them for lots of things), but pulps and westerns are different enough that you'd have to come up with quite a bit of new material to get the feel of the Old West right.

[mahon]

One idea for the showdown:

Both guys take Guts checks - whoever fails, they can't cope with the tension and they draw their weapons.

If both pass their checks, they receive negative modifiers to their next tests equal to the number by which their opponent passed the test. If they want to move, they can move only toward the opponent. Then they test again...

Whoever shoots first, counts their shot as "rushed" and receives CUMULATIVE negative penalty for moving and shooting even if they don't move. This gives an advantage to the one who has better self-control - especially if they don't move....

This means that a good gunman can hit even if he rushes the shot, and poorer gunmen would better control themselves.

Example:
Two guys (Adam - guts 6, Ben - guts 7) face each other.

Both take their tests. Adam rolls 5, Ben rolls 6. Adam's total is 11 - he passes by 1, Ben's total is 13 - he passes by 3. This means that Adam is more nervous, so he will receive worse penalty to the test.

The next turn the guys test again:
Adam suffers -3 (Ben's test was passed by 3) to his Guts, while Ben suffers only  -1 to his. So Adam's Guts = 3 now, and Ben's = 6. Ah, the tension increases....  Adam rolls 7 (total = 10), Ben rolls 5 (total = 11). So Adam will receive another -1 to his Guts. The two guys stand still..

And another test:
Adam's Guts = 2 now (6-3-1, he's on the verge...), Ben's = 6 (as it was the last time - this guy stays calm). Adam rolls 7, Ben rolls 4. Adam fails his test! He rushes his shot at Ben, who (if he is still alive) can return fire without negative modifiers.

Just need a way of making these test simultaneous. Maybe they're taken before deciding who's got the initiative, and unless one's nerves break the play ghoes normally with normal initiative?

And another thing: should the 'calm' one be allowed to make his action before the one whose nerves broke - if the calm guy's got higher Dodge score?

Just some loose ideas...

As for weapons:
- tracking ammo should be more important
- regular pistols can remain unchanged
- derringer - weaker, shorter ranges
- single- or double-barrelled guns
- gatling guns?

[mahon]

but pulps and westerns are different enough that you'd have to come up with quite a bit of new material to get the feel of the Old West right.

well.... it would simply mean adjusting archetypes and making up a few cool attributes/skills

[Argonor]

One idea for the showdown:

Both guys take Guts checks - whoever fails, they can't cope with the tension and they draw their weapons.

If both pass their checks, they receive negative modifiers to their next tests equal to the number by which their opponent passed the test. If they want to move, they can move only toward the opponent. Then they test again...

Whoever shoots first, counts their shot as "rushed" and receives CUMULATIVE negative penalty for moving and shooting even if they don't move. This gives an advantage to the one who has better self-control - especially if they don't move....

This means that a good gunman can hit even if he rushes the shot, and poorer gunmen would better control themselves.

Example:
Two guys (Adam - guts 6, Ben - guts 7) face each other.

Both take their tests. Adam rolls 5, Ben rolls 6. Adam's total is 11 - he passes by 1, Ben's total is 13 - he passes by 3. This means that Adam is more nervous, so he will receive worse penalty to the test.

The next turn the guys test again:
Adam suffers -3 (Ben's test was passed by 3) to his Guts, while Ben suffers only  -1 to his. So Adam's Guts = 3 now, and Ben's = 6. Ah, the tension increases....  Adam rolls 7 (total = 10), Ben rolls 5 (total = 11). So Adam will receive another -1 to his Guts. The two guys stand still..

And another test:
Adam's Guts = 2 now (6-3-1, he's on the verge...), Ben's = 6 (as it was the last time - this guy stays calm). Adam rolls 7, Ben rolls 4. Adam fails his test! He rushes his shot at Ben, who (if he is still alive) can return fire without negative modifiers.

Just need a way of making these test simultaneous. Maybe they're taken before deciding who's got the initiative, and unless one's nerves break the play ghoes normally with normal initiative?

And another thing: should the 'calm' one be allowed to make his action before the one whose nerves broke - if the calm guy's got higher Dodge score?

Just some loose ideas...

As for weapons:
- tracking ammo should be more important
- regular pistols can remain unchanged
- derringer - weaker, shorter ranges
- single- or double-barrelled guns
- gatling guns?

I think we might need a special skill as f.x. 'Fast draw' that gives a bonus to a Dodge roll when drawing - the involved parties then make some sort of opposed Dodge rolls to see who shoots first?

I haven't thought it completely through, but I also think that the option in the old Boot Hill RPG, where you can forego a fast draw/shoot by a more deliberately controlled draw/shoot to get a bigger chance of actually hitting your target should be incorporated in some way..?

[mahon]

I think we might need a special skill as f.x. 'Fast draw' that gives a bonus to a Dodge roll when drawing - the involved parties then make some sort of opposed Dodge rolls to see who shoots first?

skill ideas:
- expert horserider (makes controlling a horse easier)
- shooting from horseback - we all know it: shooting while gallopping
- fast draw (allows to shoot before the enemy, but exhaists your action unless it was already used)
- nerves of steel (reduces penalties during showdown)
- dodging bullets from the fast draw
etc.

I haven't thought it completely through, but I also think that the option in the old Boot Hill RPG, where you can forego a fast draw/shoot by a more deliberately controlled draw/shoot to get a bigger chance of actually hitting your target should be incorporated in some way..?

I would rather allow the *calm* guy who won the showdown to fire before the enemy (in reaction to his nervous drawing of a gun), but the shot would be rushed and this might require a skill.

This would mean: the "loser" MUST rush his shot, while the winner MAY do it. One might also deliberately rush the shot ecven wqithout failing the Guts test.

This would allow you to surprise your enemy with a shot, but the shot would be rushed, and thus very inaccurate. Otherwise keeping your nervers under control would allow you to stand firm and - if you survive the shot - fire a more accurate one...

I considered  firm nerves to be an advasntage in this situation, allowing you to control your actions. While shaky nerves would force you to act haphazardly...

[Argonor]

Might work  

Let me know if you get something written down and tested... Wild West will be my next priority, when I get my pulp going (alongside playtesting of Chainmail Bikini..)

[mahon]

I think I might actually check it as soon as I have several free hours.

[Argonor]

Ah, the ever-present problem... Father Time not being a mild and generous power....  ::

[warrenpeace]

The old Avalon Hill game "Gunslinger" is my favorite game of this genre.  Characters got extra cards with special attributes and skills.  The game played out like the slow motion scene at the end of "The Long Riders."  I would recommend looking over this old AH game for some ideas.  It's long out of print and the company has been sold and dismembered.

Warren