Western confederates

[Hunlion]

Just a quick question about .....what did the western confederates mainly use ....shell, frock, shirts, jackets,or any other jackets. Did they mainly use kepi or hats.

Thanks in advance.

John

[huevans]

Shell jackets and hats.

[vtsaogames]

Whatever they could get. The pick of food harvested in the west went to the Army of Northern Virginia, as did the weapons. I suspect uniforms were similar. I know that officers who didn't measure up in Virginia were sent west, or to their state local defenses.

A Union soldier captured by Bragg's army in 1863 thought they didn't have uniforms, at least as he understood them.

My rule of thumb is 1/3 of units in mostly gray uniforms, 1/3 in butternut and tatters, 1/3 in a mix of uniforms and butternut. This represents who recently got new issues and who didn't.

This changed by the end of the war when the Confederates developed a good grey dye that didn't have to come through the blockade. Most people play 1862-1863.

[zippyfusenet]

By 'western' I suppose you mean the greater Mississippi valley. The trans-Mississippi theater was a whole 'nother story. I agree that jacket and slouch hat would be the most common dress from 1862 on. I am persuaded that nearly all regular Confederate soldiers were uniformed, and that the common idea of the 'ragged reb' is mostly Lost Cause mythology. Here are links to some articles on the subject that I have found very useful:

http://authentic-campaigner.com/articles/walden/cd%20jacket%20pages/cdjacket.htm

http://www.adolphusconfederateuniforms.com/confederate-depot-uniforms-of-the-department-of-alabama-mississippi-and-east-louisiana-1864-1865-part-i.html

http://adolphusconfederateuniforms.com/confederate-depot-uniforms-of-the-department-of-alabama-mississippi-and-east-louisiana-1864-1865-part-ii.html

http://www.military-historians.org/company/journal/confederate/confederate-1.htm

http://adolphusconfederateuniforms.com/free-article-downloads.html

[aphillathehun]

I did some regiments from Shiloh and documented them on the blog:
https://paintingdistractions.wordpress.com/category/acw/

Early on there were a lot of frock coats but I imagine it would have shifted to shell jackets fairly early.  I tried to figure out what these regiments were wearing at the time of Shiloh.  There are some interesting ones but on a couple I just couldn't find anything.

[huevans]

The major ? would be whether the Western units would be wearing grey Richmond pattern shell jackets or Western depot pattern shell jackets and - if the latter - whether these latter would be butternut (with / without blue collars and cuffs) or grey?

[Extrabio1947]

The Adolphus links will provide most of the information you are seeking.  Highly researched and recommended.  Shell jackets were most common due to the need to conserve material compared to the frock coat. 

However, the Western Confederates were indeed ragged when compared to the ANV.  Many existent diaries of Western Confederates include entries marveling at the appearance of Longstreet’s Corps at Chickamauga, especially regarding how well equipped and uniformed they were.

[zippyfusenet]

In camp near their supply depots and near the major ports, Confederate soldiers had good access to uniforms. On campaign, especially on offensives into Union territory, Confederate armies often out-marched their supply services. One veteran estimated that a jacket would wear out in the field in three months, while a pair of trousers would only last a month.

On the Second Bull Run, Antietam and Gettysburg campaigns, the Army of Northern Virginia marched themselves ragged and barefoot, and took advantage of the Federal uniforms they captured at Manassass Junction and Harper's Ferry. Longstreet's men were all issued new Tait uniforms on their way west to join Bragg for Chickamauga, and they looked very sharp indeed when they arrived. No doubt the Army of Tennessee grew very ragged on Bragg's Kentucky campaign, while Van Dorn and Price's troops west of the Mississippi always had tenuous supply lines. But in 1864 the Army of Tennessee was falling back on its supply depot in Atlanta, and Sam Watkins recalled that Joe Johnston kept the men well fed and clothed.

My understanding of 'butternut' is that it refers to the dusty grey-brown of uniforms that had originally been dyed grey with cheap, non-colorfast logwood dyes, and had faded. Therefore, most Confederates who wore uniforms made from domestically produced cloth would have been some shade of butternut, ranging from fresh grey uniforms with a yellowish tinge, to worn uniforms faded almost to khaki, depending on their age. The imported Tait uniforms, officers' uniforms made up from high-quality cloth, and perhaps other imports would not have faded to butternut. It also seems that many Confederate uniforms were made up from undyed 'drab' cloth of various shades, but that's a whole 'nuther story.

[sepoy1857]

Just a quick question about .....what did the western confederates mainly use ....shell, frock, shirts, jackets,or any other jackets. Did they mainly use kepi or hats.

Thanks in advance.

John

Yes to all the above. They were much less uniform than the ANV owing to mixed supply bases, etc.

[huevans]

My understanding of 'butternut' is that it refers to the dusty grey-brown of uniforms that had originally been dyed grey with cheap, non-colorfast logwood dyes, and had faded. Therefore, most Confederates who wore uniforms made from domestically produced cloth would have been some shade of butternut, ranging from fresh grey uniforms with a yellowish tinge, to worn uniforms faded almost to khaki, depending on their age. The imported Tait uniforms, officers' uniforms made up from high-quality cloth, and perhaps other imports would not have faded to butternut. It also seems that many Confederate uniforms were made up from undyed 'drab' cloth of various shades, but that's a whole 'nuther story.

Although I have seen photos of original Richmond jackets that are still a pristine mid grey with no hint of brown.

"Richmond jackets" were made to a pattern, but manufactured out of all sorts of fabric IIRC. So perhaps it would depend whether the jacket was made from well dyed (imported from the UK?) cloth or local home-dyed fabric.

OTOH the photos of Western depot jackets I have seen have all been a khaki brownish colour.

[zippyfusenet]

I can't argue with any of that, huevans. Certainly many different qualities of cloth were made up into Confederate uniforms. It might be that the eastern Confederate armies, being nearer to the major seaports, got more of the good quality domestic and imported cloth, but I have no evidence for that. Butternut was worn by some Army of Northern Virginia troops; there's a well know quote describing Confederate soldiers at South Mountain, "...dressed in coarse butternut colored stuffs, very ugly...". It seems logical that Richmond uniforms were issued mostly in the east, while western Confederates got uniforms from the western clothing depots, but again I have no proof.

The points I would press are:

1. Most Confederate soldiers (not guerillas or bushwhackers), east or west, had uniforms issued to them, although these may not have been entirely uniform within a unit. An issue might include jackets of different patterns, shades, trim; whatever was in the depot at the time would be issued. They didn't wear civilian clothing or rags, except in some times and places where uniforms weren't available, such as Stirling Price's Missouri State Guard army in 1861.

2. Butternut was a greyish-khaki shade, not the bright mustard yellow or dark red brown that some artists interpret. There probably were some uniforms made up in these and other shades, but these were not butternut. Willie Tunnard reported some companies of the 3rd Louisiana Infantry issued brown uniforms in 1861, when most of the regiment had grey uniforms, there's a description of red-brown homespun cloth worn by Missouri Confederates in 1861, and many other accounts, but these were not buitternut.

Now I've said my say, and if anyone thinks differently, that's fine too.