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Author Topic: Troy : Fall of a city.  (Read 17076 times)

Offline TWD

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #75 on: April 11, 2018, 08:16:30 AM »
I liked it too.
Yes the dialogue was frequently woefully clunky and most of the young male leads had been cast for their muscle definition rather than acting ability but the core story is a good one.
I liked the inclusion of the gods - the chief fail of the Brad Pitt version was the compete exclusion of immortals from the story. They're literally the point of the story. In this the gods were present and influential without dominating.
Odysseus was good, Achilles brooded and sulked well and Hector died rather better than his performance to that point and led me to expect. Paris was poor at both fighting and wooing.
There were some terrific performances from the female leads,  in particular Chloe Pirrie and Frances O'Connor were both much better than the lines they were given.
I liked the fact that it took the Trojan point of view and the idea that Helen herself was in some way the "horse" that gained the Greeks access to the city. Sadly they rather took that idea too far by casting someone more wooden than the horse itself in the key role.

An interesting production, let down chiefly by a pair of miscast leads. Pop out and put the kettle on when they're on screen and enjoy the much better work going on around them.

Offline Metternich

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #76 on: April 29, 2018, 12:46:24 AM »
Just started watching this yesterday and have seen three episodes.  Enjoying it.  The Bronze Age material culture is somewhat better depicted than in many "sword and sandal" films; acting is generally of an acceptable standard. Even the "heroes" are depicted as human beings, with flaws as well as courage. Actually some rather moving moments (Agamemnon, with his sacrifice of his daughter to obtain a wind,  made more human than in the Brad Pitt epic - the series shows everyone pays a price in war; wonder if there will be a sequel ?  Mourning becomes Elektra).  (In the Illiad,  Homer slyly does not make an unalloyed hero of Achilles, killer of men and sacker of cities) 

Offline rumacara

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #77 on: April 29, 2018, 05:25:42 PM »
I saw all the episodes and i enjoyed it. :)
Lots of ideas... ;D

I´m also watching "Of Kings and Prophets".
And its very nice too although less than Troy.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 07:26:42 AM by rumacara »

Offline Phil Portway

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #78 on: May 01, 2018, 01:39:41 PM »
I really enjoyed it and so did my wife!  :o
If it isn't enjoyable, it isn't gaming!

Offline Captain Harlock

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #79 on: May 02, 2018, 01:16:13 PM »
Frankly I dont understand what is the point of this thread. I mean we clearly cannot adress the elephant in the room and I can perfectly accept the reasons why. But then whats the point of having this discussion at all? It would be better if the whole subject did not exist. Its like having a Star Wars thread but nobody should talk about Luke Skywalker for x reasons. Pretty impossible isnt it? So whats the point?

Offline TWD

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2018, 03:50:49 PM »
I didn't see any elephants.
Big wooden horse, yes. But no elephants.

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2018, 04:14:51 PM »
Frankly I dont understand what is the point of this thread. I mean we clearly cannot adress the elephant in the room and I can perfectly accept the reasons why. But then whats the point of having this discussion at all? It would be better if the whole subject did not exist. Its like having a Star Wars thread but nobody should talk about Luke Skywalker for x reasons. Pretty impossible isnt it? So whats the point?

??

It’s just a friendly discussion about whether people who have watched a pseudo historical TV drama (of some wargaming related interest) have enjoyed it or not, and whether they thought it was any good. We have quite a few of these sorts of discussions on the forum. I suppose the point is that people can put forward a view, pro or con, what they liked or didn’t like about the series, and other members who perhaps haven’t yet seen it, can decide whether they’re going to bother watching it or not... Shouldn’t be that controversial :)

Offline swiftnick

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2018, 04:47:17 PM »
 I personally quite enjoyed it. I don't really care about any elephants.
However it could have done with more action. Both types! lol
I am happy to discuss this programme on a forum about toy soldiers.
The armour and the few action scenes were quite well done. So I did get my figures out and slapped on some paint.
What has it taught me about Bronze age warfare?
For a start they had bloody awful guards and really obvious spies.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 04:54:52 PM by swiftnick »

Offline Captain Harlock

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2018, 05:01:20 PM »
??

It’s just a friendly discussion about whether people who have watched a pseudo historical TV drama (of some wargaming related interest) have enjoyed it or not, and whether they thought it was any good. We have quite a few of these sorts of discussions on the forum. I suppose the point is that people can put forward a view, pro or con, what they liked or didn’t like about the series, and other members who perhaps haven’t yet seen it, can decide whether they’re going to bother watching it or not... Shouldn’t be that controversial :)

But it kinda is when there are points that cannot be addressed even in the most civil manner. And I get it if you want to protect the forum from discussions that may (or may not) lead to politics and subjects beyond miniatures, its perfectly fine. But then again whats the point of the thread I ask again. Its abit like the Midas 'ears myth, are we supposed to talk about Helen's dress, or the color of Menelaos's sandals but not what actually most people talk about when they discuss this particular series?
I hope you get my point.

Offline swiftnick

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2018, 05:09:46 PM »
I assume you mean the race of some of the actors?
To be honest I don't think that is what most people talk about when discussing this series.

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2018, 05:13:39 PM »
I get your point, but we all see these things differently. For me, the fact that one of the characters was played by an actor of a different ethnicity from what many people might have been expecting simply isn’t the defining big deal about the series. It’s just one choice amongst hundreds the producers or director made. Perhaps some people see it as the be all and end all. I suspect most people in this day and age don’t. I think there are plenty of other things to say about the series, good and bad.
For me, the fact that high king Agamemnon was played like a grumpy builder was a lot more disconcerting than any other casting decisions :)

Offline Captain Harlock

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2018, 05:20:13 PM »
I assume you mean the race of some of the actors?
To be honest I don't think that is what most people talk about when discussing this series.

I think not. Granted that most people discussing the casting choices of Achileus and Patroclus, possibly do it for the wrong reasons and agenda. But that does not mean that everyone who disagrees with those choices is racist or a bigot.

Offline Coenus Scaldingus

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2018, 05:35:25 PM »
Surely the biggest controversy is the horse-riding and use of stirrups? Wasn't that what everyone talked about?

...

No, still just me...  ;D
~Ad finem temporum~

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #88 on: May 02, 2018, 05:38:21 PM »
I think not. Granted that most people discussing the casting choices of Achileus and Patroclus, possibly do it for the wrong reasons and agenda. But that does not mean that everyone who disagrees with those choices is racist or a bigot.

I'm sure it doesn't. People are entitled to the view that the casting was not what they would have done. (I think that about several of the actors in the series, as I've posted above, including Helen, who I thought was terribly miscast).
But unfortunately, you're right to say that some people would have the discussion about race for reasons which it's not appropriate to get into it here, since it takes us into politics in its broadest sense. And this forum is a politics-free zone.
Does that mean there's nothing else worth discussing about the series? To you, it seems it does - in which case, of course it's your right not to bother discussing it.
Many other people seem to have found plenty of other aspects of the series to talk about though, and that's their right too, I'm sure you'd agree :)

Offline Captain Harlock

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Re: Troy : Fall of a city.
« Reply #89 on: May 02, 2018, 05:47:29 PM »
I get your point, but we all see these things differently. For me, the fact that one of the characters was played by an actor of a different ethnicity from what many people might have been expecting simply isn’t the defining big deal about the series. It’s just one choice amongst hundreds the producers or director made. Perhaps some people see it as the be all and end all. I suspect most people in this day and age don’t. I think there are plenty of other things to say about the series, good and bad.
For me, the fact that high king Agamemnon was played like a grumpy builder was a lot more disconcerting than any other casting decisions :)

There is a particular reason why Achileus HAS to look in a certain way (and thats not just because of his description in Iliad). Its about his character. I analysed it in a previous (now edited out) post, in order to explain why this issue has nothing to do with race per se.
Anyway I understand that due to economic reasons most big productions are bound to be British or American. And I also understand that these productions aim firstly at their local demographics and seek to address local social and political issues. I get it that those will always be prioritised above any historical accuracy or any storytelling element. And I get that as an insignificant percentage of the market, I only have the choice to consume or not to consume the vision of the x foreign production about Greek mythology and history. What most people dont understand (and I dont blame them because they possibly dont even know it) is that Greek and generally eastern mediterranean cultures historically had a very different kind of interaction with black people and the standards formed for most of northern and western europe, do not apply.

 

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