(Commercial) Full Battle Rattle Miniatures announces a Canadian LAV-III preorder

[AlexM]

We are so excited to announce our first vehicle pre-order, the Canadian LAV-III. The LAV-III and its variants have been in use by the Canadian Armed Forces since the mid-90s and saw extremely faithful service both at home, and abroad. Most recently, LAV-IIIs were deployed with the Canadian contribution to ISAF in Afghanistan. This model represents that vehicle to complement our existing miniature range, scaled to 1/50.

How this will work:

We need your help to make this happen! 3D printing and production is an expensive process, but working with Trenchworx will ensure we have the best quality product to offer our customers. This project won’t become a reality until we can get 50 units pre-ordered. We are intending to offer a multi-part resin and metal kit. Of course, of we do not hit our target, we will refund your payment in full.

Vehicles can be pre-ordered individually for $70 CAD each (roughly $52USD / £39 / €45), or if you order 3 or more, the price is reduced to $65 CAD with the promo code PREORDER

Place your pre-order now - https://fullbattlerattleminiatures.com/products/isaf-canadian-lav-iii





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If you have any questions or concerns, make sure to contact us directly!

Thank you for all your support!

*any miniatures included in orders will be shipped at the same time a

[Arrigo]

I love the renders, but at 45 euros it is extremely expensive. I am afraid that I will have to pass on this one. 

PS: there is no way to cooperate with empress to rework their own Stryker?

[grant]

At $70 it’s expensive.

 

[Ultravanillasmurf]

At £39 it is too expensive for a non core interest, sorry.

[AlexM]

What do you feel would be an appropriate price point?

[Arrigo]

now these are just my own opinions based on my own gaming and gaming budget. I also do not run a company or know the cost involved.

For an IFV (opposed to an MBT) I would say between 20-25£, better if at the lower end. Butlers offers the 1:56  LAV 25 at 16.50£ and the one in 1:40 at 25£. Both are 3D printed. I know Trenchworx quality is high, but I also feel their prices a bit too high. 

Gaming wise I have moved away from buying vehicles platoons in 28mm for cold war and later forces. Already 15mm at time feels cramped. Right now I tend to buy single vehicles with one or two squads of dismounts. It fits the kind of games I am playing or preparing now. Yes I would like to have the space to manoeuvre a couple of Canadian Mech platoons maybe with some Leos in support... all in 28mm, but this is not going to happen!    (also painting two platoons worth of modern camo!!!!!    ) .

Said that, having one and some Canadian troops will certainly fits my plans, provided that the vehicle is  priced around the 20£ mark.


One thing, not directed against you but more a general reflection:  there has been the  promise (or lure?)  was that 3D printing would have reduced cost of vehicles rather than increase it, but it does not seems to happen across the spectrum. 

[Will Bailie]

You're in a difficult position, Alex.  Gamers have been spoiled by relatively low-cost plastic models like those from Rubicon and Warlord (and Warlord are benefiting from a partnership with Italeri), for vehicles that they can sell in much larger quantities.  (I was going to say 'mass-produce" but then remembered we are talking wargame models here  )

Your model is going to appeal to a much smaller number of people, and will be produced in more expensive resin and metal.  Unfortunately the average shopper will only see the price point and not your production costs and margins! 

As for a price point, consider that the OOP Company B Stryker is listed at USD$55 (but perhaps that price is one of the reasons it remains OOP).  Empress has a Stryker for £25.  (on the basis that the Stryker is likely the closest thing to a LAV-III that's readily available for gamers)  Empress also has a LAV-25 for £25 - the LAV-25 is more or less the same vehicle as the CAF Coyote Recce or the Australian ASLAV.

[Wyrmalla]

Reviewing Empress' £25 LAV-25, the detail's not as impressive as this model. Special Artizan Service Miniatures may be a comparison as well - who's Boxer and Ratel IFVs go for $42 (and the detail's on part with Empress' LAV-25). Their newer Dagor (Humvee) goes for $50, and that comes with 5 crew. SASM also do pre-orders to pay for initial production as well.

[AlexM]

Thank you for the well thought out responses gents - it's quite helpful. There is indeed a huge disadvantage here - our price point is set to break even on production start to finish of 50 models, which is already a lofty goal considering the niche within niche of Canadian modern subject matter. The company is simply trying to cover costs to make it happen, and in the end will lose on shipping 50 resin chunks and their metal bits from production to me, and then onto the customers, but if it makes the vehicle a reality, so be it.

It's easy to compare to other 3D printed models out there, however, the quality is generally easy to spot. There are often extremely visible ridges on the Z Axis of the print, which are then very obvious on the cast production pieces. Everyone has different quality expectations, however, if the Full Battle Rattle name is going to be attached to it, we want the best we can possibly get. If that means the products aren't for everybody, that's fine too.

[Arrigo]

'the best is the enemy of good enough' Sergey Gorshkov 

I do not want the 'best' quality (for that I am waiting for a Tamyia Kit...) I want a reasonably priced and reasonably detailed vehicle... 

Said that, I have plenty of 3d Printed vehicles (15mm) from Butlers and the quality of the 3d print is extremely good and improving. I a tempted by some of the 28mm offers. Maybe a 3d printed final product could be a viable alternative.

[peachy rex]

Once you pile on all the proper stowage, camo netting etc half of the detail will be invisible anyhow. The vehicles for my current project are a mix of 3D printed and out-of-scale resin, but once I'm done I defy anyone who doesn't recognise the original models to tell.

[huevans]

TBH, I think Alex's price is fair enough.

I have been pricing 20mm models for the LAV-III and Coyote and Modell Trans makes fantastic looking stuff - at 40 Euros!!!!!

You would probably leave off a lot of the Modell Trans fiddly bits for wargaming, but the base models are clearly more detailed than the Empress LAV-25, for example.

Alex is offering a bigger, more resource intensive AFV with an excellent figures range to go with it and easily available opponents from Spectre, Empress and the others.

[Arrigo]

TBH, I think Alex's price is fair enough.

I have been pricing 20mm models for the LAV-III and Coyote and Modell Trans makes fantastic looking stuff - at 40 Euros!!!!!

You would probably leave off a lot of the Modell Trans fiddly bits for wargaming, but the base models are clearly more detailed than the Empress LAV-25, for example.

Alex is offering a bigger, more resource intensive AFV with an excellent figures range to go with it and easily available opponents from Spectre, Empress and the others.

well.... just because someone is ripping off people with overpriced models this is not an excuse to continue...  I think it is time cusotmers vote with their feet against overprices...

[Will Bailie]

I think it's harsh to accuse Alex of ripping people off.  He is trying to get a specialised item to market, something that will likely sell in small numbers.  I was in my local brick and mortar shop today, and plastic models from Warlord were priced at CAD$45 (slightly better prices for Rubicon).  And that's for WWII tanks that will sell in big numbers. Warlord's prices for large resin tanks, such as King Tiger or Ioseph Stalin IS-2, prices get into the range of US$41 - $45 range (up to around CAD$60)

Alex is proposing a resin and metal model, which will have higher costs than a plastic model.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, Company B asked USD$55 (approx CAD$72) for a Stryker, which is about as close a comparison to a LAV-III as you're likely to find.  On that basis, Alex's price point of CAD$70 is not unreasonable.  Now, as to whether you, or I, or anyone else, is ready to pay $70 is another matter altogether!  (I regret that I am not currently ready to purchase a LAV-III)

[AlexM]

Will, thank you for the elaboration, it helps clarify things that I think might be getting lost here. As mentioned by some others as well, this is entirely to make this project happen, and we will lose money, but at least a LAV-III will hit market.

Arrigo, feel free to contact me privately if you have any doubt as to how I got to my individual prices. I would appreciate you refraining from unfounded accusations in a public forum.