Valiant Miniatures re-scaled?

[Pendrake]

The *average* human is 7.5 heads tall, a *tall* human is about 8. The pubic bone is usually the halfway point on the body and the wrists typically line up with the hip joint, the elbows with the navel.

Sources who are not you contend that it is a narrower fange than that. 7 to 7.5 heads.

Walk down any busy street and you'll see numerous exceptions to the above.

I have looked at Group Shots of peoples looking for such exceptions, shots of soldiers lined up at attention, etc., and found much conformity to the 7 to 7.5 rule. I will try looking at street shots of civilians. Shaquille O’Neill clocks in at 7 and change (although it’s uncommon to find a floor to noggin’ shot of him).

But what has that to do with scale height? 

100% of gaming figures are out of scale with and not in proportion with real humans. (Or maybe it is 97% and I have not found the figure ranges that got it correct.) But the point is that since no figure is sculpted to scale, it renders all the endless, “...are these figures in scale with?...” debates pointless. None of them are the right size or proportion. And it gets even sillier when the debate is about fantasy figures. In some fantasy locale, realm, or plane there could be humans of markedly different heights or odd proportions. That notion is not nearly as fantastic as Dragons.

I'm guessing the Valiant figure is the plastic German, second from the right.

I was guessing the same. OP didn’t mention plastics though (But I was thinking it did.)

[ulverston]

Thanks for the responses guys... a bit more in depth than I expected! I am pretty surprised that they are rescaling, my old eyes are fond of the bigger size they use. Oh well I will keep my figures painted so far very seperate.... maybe they will release some plastic French to make up for this?

[Ultravanillasmurf]

I agree with Arlequín on the Valiant figure.

On proportions, reference:
"The head to body ratio is a little more complex as it changes from a ratio of about one to four for a small child to about one to eight for an adult. "
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/human-body-ratios/

Please can we remain polite.

[italwars]

Valiant are indeed rescaling and I've seen pictures on another forum of pre-production figures obtained at Bovington including this side by side with Dixon, SHQ and Adler.

From what we could see on this pict, supposly showing a new “rescaled “ Valiant figure,  i m sorry to say that they were and still are totally incompatible and useless minis.

[MartinR]

Indeed, you can tell it is Valiant because it (still) towers above the SHQ figure. Otoh, lots of figures tower above SHQ.

Wrt the whole proportions thing, many/most figures are sculpted with oversize heads, hands, feet and weapons, as they look "better" that way. Honorable exceptions being AB and a small number of soft plastic figures.

[Arlequín]

Please can we remain polite.

Maybe I missed something, have we been otherwise? 

[vodkafan]

  Oh bugger I better buy a stock of the original "big" Valiant before they become unavailable then....

[Tim]

100% of gaming figures are out of scale with and not in proportion with real humans.

Some are more noticeably so than others, though, and various parts of the body, equipment, and/or weapons vary in proportion.

it renders all the endless, “...are these figures in scale with?...” debates pointless.

I think if you replace"in scale with" with "go well with" then the debates and preferences are valid.

[Cubs]

As someone who has tried to fit Redbox Njorns (Vikings) with old Gripping Beast Vikings I really can confirm it does matter. Height is one issue, but as stated people vary in height so it's not such of a worry. But the difference in the way features, extremities and weaponry are modelled jars with the eye and makes it look like a freak show.

But as with so much else, if the individual doesn't mind, it doesn't matter. If they do, it does.

[Arlequín]

I could easily live with some body shape variety, but helmets and rifles etc were not 'shrink to fit'. Private 'Lofty'  might only be 26mm, but his rifle and helmet should be the same size as Cpl Tiny's, even though he's 30mm.

 

[FramFramson]

What size are these Valiant figures going to be anyway? That German looks quite good, but is he the traditional WWI "20mm" scale? (If so, that's some very nice detail on a figure that small). 28mm and You've got my attention.

I could easily live with some body shape variety, but helmets and rifles etc were not 'shrink to fit'. Private 'Lofty'  might only be 26mm, but his rifle and helmet should be the same size as Cpl Tiny's, even though he's 30mm.

 

Precisely.

[Andrew_McGuire]

The original Valiant figures are around 25 mm in height, and compatible with no other range I'm aware of. Judging by the photo, the rescaled ones are about 22m, larger than most 20mm metal figures but compatible with 1/72 soft plastic figures. If not, I'm not sure why they bothered.

[Harry Faversham]

Resurrected from one of the LAF's catacombs. I got a box of Valiant British Infantry the first week they came out, the same week Colin assured me British Airborne were in the pipeline!
Well since then we've all grown old, fat, and grey but sadly still no Paras. Thing is, my spies tell me Valiant figures have been scaled down to fit in with everybody else's toy sowjers. Does this mean my original box from back in the day won't mix if I glean some new ones?

   

[JohnFoA]

When FAA were up and running, ye good olde days, people would ask 'what scale?'. My reply was always they are not scaled the models are 20mm eye-to-foot.

If persistent I'd suggest that one should allow  about 1.5mm from eye to top of head and you have the height. What height you chose to allocate to the 'real world person' this represents is up to you.

The average European and American soldier was 5' 8" in WW2, 5' 10" in Vietnam and currently approx 5' 11". Japanese and many Asian races were 5' 4" to 5' 6" through this period. Yet all are represented by the same '20mm' figure.

For figures to be scale height a manufacturer has to say what height they are presenting their figures to be.

Otherwise it's always well this looks about right.... And then you have to account for bases, are they on figures and not vehicles. This, along with aforementioned head,arm, weapon distortion, makes correct scale vehicles seem small.

Hence 28mm figures can work with 1:48 vehicles when figures would be approx 34 high (?) I'm doing this from memory, sorry.

Anyway it is too easy to become a circular discussion. If scale is an issue then you have to have shorter figures for WW2 than say Vietnam or Mid-east or produce different sized copies of same vehicle for each conflict.

If you have same sized figures and vehicles then they are  a size (28mm e.g.) not a scale.

That's my 2¢

Cheers John

[Hang Tuah]

When FAA were up and running, ye good olde days, people would ask 'what scale?'. My reply was always they are not scaled the models are 20mm eye-to-foot.

Not a name I have heard referenced in years! Such a great brand. Some of the ranges still hold up very well with the passage of years. Even today there's no 20mm maker who comes close to possessing the balls they had in putting out Greeks and Norwegians. Too bad they never got around to the Finns or Slovaks.