1/300 scale Coastal Warfare game from Warlord "Cruel Seas"

[Antonio J Carrasco]

1/600 scale is 1 cm equals 6 meters, therefore a table of 120x180 equals 720x1080 meters.

1/300 scale is 1cm equals 3 meters, or 360x540 meters of gaming space.

Not to be picky, but in both cases it represents point blank ranges for the weapons platforms used by the boats and ships involved in coastal warfare. Don't see what is the big deal with the scale. 1/600 or 1/300 the results will be equally unrealistic. Actually, for naval games, even for those representing coastal forces, anything larger than 1/3000 would be out of scale -for big ships, even 1/3000 is too large-. What I am missing? (besides that is Warlord and it is sport to give Warlord as much hell as possible, of course)

[Captain Blood]

I like the look of it. Nice models, the opportunity to build some coastal scenery, and an evocative, swashbuckling, cinematic setting. Can even add 1/300 scale figures to the mix.
It’s also innovative, and there’s something to be said for that in a hobby which - as far as the ‘historical’ side goes anyway - usually involves endless rehashing of the same periods and ranges of figures.
It’s just a game with toys. Ranges, move distances and so on in tabletop wargames are never remotely realistic. Almost nothing about tabletop wargaming is realistic. It’s all purely representational - one giant set of compromises between reality and suspension of disbelief, in order to get a fun, visually pleasing game with models onto a tabletop.
I can’t get hung up about ‘unrealistic’ gunfire ranges between boats 
Unless you play on a huge table with near microscopic toys, gunnery ranges are never going to be to scale. Playing wargames on domestic tables using models that are big enough to see, model, paint and enjoy, means accepting the compromise- nothing about relative distance is realistic.

[Gibby]

The closest you can get to realism on the tabletop is when you find yourself making similar decisions to and adopting the same tactics as people who were there at the time to try and achieve victory. Period FEEL is important otherwise why play that particular era/genre? But SIMULATION on the table is impossible, and probably undesirable. So long as everyone has fun, though, it's a good game. I find myself intrigued by this game!

[Mad Lord Snapcase]

I like the look of it. Nice models, the opportunity to build some coastal scenery, and an evocative, swashbuckling, cinematic setting. Can even add 1/300 scale figures to the mix.

That's why I'm buying it.   

[Etranger]

1/600 scale is 1 cm equals 6 meters, therefore a table of 120x180 equals 720x1080 meters.

1/300 scale is 1cm equals 3 meters, or 360x540 meters of gaming space.

Not to be picky, but in both cases it represents point blank ranges for the weapons platforms used by the boats and ships involved in coastal warfare. Don't see what is the big deal with the scale. 1/600 or 1/300 the results will be equally unrealistic. Actually, for naval games, even for those representing coastal forces, anything larger than 1/3000 would be out of scale -for big ships, even 1/3000 is too large-. What I am missing? (besides that is Warlord and it is sport to give Warlord as much hell as possible, of course)

You're assuming a 1:1 correlation between figure scale and ground scale. Very few wargames (naval or otherwise) do that & I'd be surprised if these rules do that either. 1/600 Coastal forces on an 8' X 6' table gives a decent game. 1/300 is large for naval  games but at least fits in with existent scenery and figure ranges.

[carlos marighela]

I’m not sure that a great deal of 1/300 terrain is called for. The English Channel and much of the North Sea are famously empty of buildings, trees and the like. I suspect that the rules aren’t designed around St Nazaire and even if they were I’d suspect folk would want something bigger for the visual effect.

Interested to see the rules, although nothing from Voldemort has been much chop so far, so expectations are low. No reason one couldn’t play with 1/700, 1/1200 or 1/2400 models, if the system is entertaining.

[SteveBurt]

Modern naval games never tie distance to model scale, so the only disadvantages of the larger models is that when ships are close, the models will be touching.
The Napoleonic naval rules from ODGW do use ground scale = model scale, and that might still work for early ironclads, but by the time of WW1 weapon ranges are way too long to tie them to model scale.
For instance, General Quarters III has a ground scale of 1 metre on the table = 10,000 yards, or a bit less than 1:10000. It's a good scale as it allows even long range duels to be played out on a table about 8' x 6', make speeds in knots turn into centimetres, and makes it very easy to turn ranges into yards into distances on the table. I play those rules with 1:3000 scale models, and it works fine.
For coastal actions I'd think a scale somewhere around 1:1200 would work well.

[Kadzik]

The ratio between ground scale and model scale is not a problem here. As said, all is a matter of simplifi assumptions.
IMHO main fault of 1:300 is a quite big size of the ships which will disturb manouvers. Shooting between ships few inches apart will be awkward irrelevant of the scale used, but manoeuvring with a 15 cm ships would be painful.
I played Dystopian Wars with nominal scale 1:1200 - but in steampunk setting everything is bigger - and sailing with 15-20 cm behemoths was extremely difficult.

[boywundyrx]

1/600 scale is 1 cm equals 6 meters, therefore a table of 120x180 equals 720x1080 meters.

1/300 scale is 1cm equals 3 meters, or 360x540 meters of gaming space.

Not to be picky, but in both cases it represents point blank ranges for the weapons platforms used by the boats and ships involved in coastal warfare. Don't see what is the big deal with the scale. 1/600 or 1/300 the results will be equally unrealistic. Actually, for naval games, even for those representing coastal forces, anything larger than 1/3000 would be out of scale -for big ships, even 1/3000 is too large-. What I am missing? (besides that is Warlord and it is sport to give Warlord as much hell as possible, of course)

As others have said, it's not the model to ground scale ratio, it's the physical size of the toys on the table.  They'll run into each other and struggle to stay on the table.  1/600 coastal ships on a 9'x5' table are hard to keep on the table once the action heats up.

There's also a looking right factor, but that's subjective. 

Chris

[SpaceCudet]

On the box art it looks like someone is throwing a hand grenade so it looks like the rules are intended for _very_ close action and so the scale should be fine

[SBMiniaturesGuy]

Modern naval games never tie distance to model scale, so the only disadvantages of the larger models is that when ships are close, the models will be touching.
The Napoleonic naval rules from ODGW do use ground scale = model scale, and that might still work for early ironclads, but by the time of WW1 weapon ranges are way too long to tie them to model scale.
For instance, General Quarters III has a ground scale of 1 metre on the table = 10,000 yards, or a bit less than 1:10000. It's a good scale as it allows even long range duels to be played out on a table about 8' x 6', make speeds in knots turn into centimetres, and makes it very easy to turn ranges into yards into distances on the table. I play those rules with 1:3000 scale models, and it works fine.
For coastal actions I'd think a scale somewhere around 1:1200 would work well.

The old Clear for Action WW2 surface action rules used a scale of 1" = 100 yards, and the game actually played best in your backyard -- with opening shots starting out as much as 12-15 feet away from each side.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

You're assuming a 1:1 correlation between figure scale and ground scale. Very few wargames (naval or otherwise) do that & I'd be surprised if these rules do that either. 1/600 Coastal forces on an 8' X 6' table gives a decent game. 1/300 is large for naval  games but at least fits in with existent scenery and figure ranges.

That is my point, exactly. I thought that people was being a bit unreasonable in their criticisms against a game that none of them has played yet. I don't think I will take the plunge, but I must say I am intrigued.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

As others have said, it's not the model to ground scale ratio, it's the physical size of the toys on the table.  They'll run into each other and struggle to stay on the table.  1/600 coastal ships on a 9'x5' table are hard to keep on the table once the action heats up.

There's also a looking right factor, but that's subjective. 

Chris

It will depend on how many boats you have on the table at any given time. Three or two of them per side shouldn't clutter a typical 120x180cm gaming table, even at 1/300 scale.

[robh]

It will depend on how many boats you have on the table at any given time. Three or two of them per side shouldn't clutter a typical 120x180cm gaming table, even at 1/300 scale.

But they are selling the game to play in a 4'x3' area so only half of your table.
Models look lovely, the rules may turn out to be great, but I am pretty sure that the two will seldom be seen together as intended.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

But they are selling the game to play in a 4'x3' area so only half of your table.
Models look lovely, the rules may turn out to be great, but I am pretty sure that the two will seldom be seen together as intended.

That small? Well, I didn't realize. Yeah, you are right that in that case it could feel cluttered...