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Author Topic: More Cold War Cloggies  (Read 4125 times)

Offline Jemima Fawr

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More Cold War Cloggies
« on: November 24, 2018, 09:24:10 PM »
Some more 1980s Cloggies from me this week: Some M113 C&V 25 recce vehicles, a YPR-765 conversion and the first of the infantry:

http://www.jemimafawr.co.uk/2018/11/24/going-dutch-building-a-cold-war-dutch-battlegroup-part-2/



Suffering from insomnia?  Too much excitement in your life?  Jemima Fawr's Miniature Wargames Blog might be just the solution you've been looking for: www.jemimafawr.co.uk

Offline grant

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2018, 01:06:39 AM »
Nice Lynx!
It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words - Orwell, 1984

Offline Ultravanillasmurf

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2018, 09:17:59 AM »
Interesting read, and an army I never really thought about.

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2018, 12:13:32 PM »
Cheers chaps!  It's not a Lynx though - while mechanically identical, the Dutch M113 C&V had a completely different crew and hatch layout and they didn't give it a snappy name. :(

Offline grant

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2018, 02:07:46 PM »
Cheers chaps!  It's not a Lynx though - while mechanically identical, the Dutch M113 C&V had a completely different crew and hatch layout and they didn't give it a snappy name. :(

Thanks for that - looks very much like a Canadian Lynx with the addition of the up-gunned turret.

That being said, google search of M113 C&V makes reference to it being called Lynx. Hmmm.


Eg
http://theplasticsoldiercompany.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1781
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 02:09:49 PM by grant »

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2018, 04:51:40 PM »
Thanks for that - looks very much like a Canadian Lynx with the addition of the up-gunned turret.

That being said, google search of M113 C&V makes reference to it being called Lynx. Hmmm.


Eg
http://theplasticsoldiercompany.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1781
Yeah it's the same vehicle underneath it all. :)

The Dutch M113 C&V was produced first - the original version had the M26 cupola and .50 Cal, just like the Canadian Lynx.  However, the commander's position was at the front-right and the cupola was in the centre of the vehicle.  There was also a 'gull-wing' door on the right-hand side of the hull on the Dutch version.

The Canadian M113 C&R was produced a couple of years later and they then called it the Lynx.  The Canadian version moved the commander to the rear-left of the vehicle (i.e. behind the driver) and shifted the cupola forward and to the right.  The Canadian version also didn't have the door on the side of the hull.

In 1974 the Dutch replaced the M26 cupola with a bespoke turret mounting an Oerlikon 25mm cannon and named it M113 C&V 25.

The 'Lynx' name does pop up on websites etc, presumably due to the very close similarity of the vehicles, but to the best of my knowledge the Dutch Army didn't use the name.  I guess that had the Canadian version been produced first, they might have both been called Lynx (oddly enough, the Dutch word for Lynx is 'Lynx' :) ).

Offline grant

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2018, 05:19:10 PM »
Haha!

I was an armoured recce officer (reserve) right after the Lynx left service in the early 90s;  the military museum I volunteer at has a lovely UN painted Lynx in the vehicle park.

We Canadians name all our vehicles - Lynx, Coyote, Cougar, etc.

Interesting that the Dutch modified it.

I normally game moderns using GHQ, who unfortunately only make the M114; luckily C&C makes a very nice Lynx - the Canadian one.

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2018, 05:31:19 PM »
The Lynx is my favourite AFV...  :-*

I badgered my mate Martin to make a model of one, so that QRF would produce it.  :D

The Humber LRC comes a close second... Some would say that I have very strange tastes and a strange concept of the word 'armoured'... ;)

Offline grant

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2018, 05:58:47 PM »
The Lynx is my favourite AFV...  :-*

I badgered my mate Martin to make a model of one, so that QRF would produce it.  :D

The Humber LRC comes a close second... Some would say that I have very strange tastes and a strange concept of the word 'armoured'... ;)

When I went off to Gagetown, the tank guys (and ladies, as of about a year before I joined!), all drove big ass trucks, SUVs; all the recce folk drove small, fast cars. The mentality carried through.

I got to train on the ubiquitous ILTIS, the Volkswagen Rabbit on steroids. Funny thing, the German ones had solid floor pans to allow fording, the Canadian Bombardier built ones had plugs in the pan which allowed snow etc to drain but also water to come up during fording.

Totally get the “armoured” concept. Recce was fun though! And a black hat was a black hat.  ;)

Offline Gunbird

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2018, 06:49:26 PM »
Been a while since I last sat in the commanders seat of a C&V 25mm. And no, our Dutch army never called it a Lynx.

Feel free to break up the jute helmet covers with streaks of green paint, some units did that. or glue on a lot of dead grass but I can imagine at 15mm that would be a chore. Also, skip painting the front bit of the FAL in brown, 95% of the ones I've seen had the same colour as the rest of the gun, rarely the buttstock in wood, like a number of Uzi's. And even those are ok to be painted the same as the rest of the rifle. (just checked, after 1980 the conscripts got new FAL's with all black plastic parts replacing the wooden parts)

Care top share the paint for the uniform? I still have a 40 of so Van Heutsz to paint to fight my Spetsnaz > Never mind, went over your Blog (y)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 06:59:58 PM by Gunbird »
Who is Gunbird? Johan van Ooij, Dutch, Mercenary Gamer, no longer mobile and happy to live life while it lasts >> http://20mmandthensome.blogspot.com/

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2018, 07:18:31 PM »
Been a while since I last sat in the commanders seat of a C&V 25mm. And no, our Dutch army never called it a Lynx.

Feel free to break up the jute helmet covers with streaks of green paint, some units did that. or glue on a lot of dead grass but I can imagine at 15mm that would be a chore. Also, skip painting the front bit of the FAL in brown, 95% of the ones I've seen had the same colour as the rest of the gun, rarely the buttstock in wood, like a number of Uzi's. And even those are ok to be painted the same as the rest of the rifle. (just checked, after 1980 the conscripts got new FAL's with all black plastic parts replacing the wooden parts)

Care top share the paint for the uniform? I still have a 40 of so Van Heutsz to paint to fight my Spetsnaz > Never mind, went over your Blog (y)
Cheers Gunbird!

Damn, damn, damn, damn... Every last photo I've found of Dutch troops shows 'woody' FNs!   >:(

Ah well, never mind, it'll differentiate them from the Belgians (when I do them)...

This project is also conforming to my old theory of "If you don't know the answer, paint something deliberately wrong and wait for someone to correct you and give you the answer..." ;)

Offline Gunbird

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2018, 09:22:05 PM »
Well, wood isn't wrong per se....so don't worry about it too much :) If the ball would drop everything would be dragged from the armouries, right down to the Brens and quad 50s of WW2 vintage.

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2018, 09:29:40 PM »
Well, wood isn't wrong per se....so don't worry about it too much :) If the ball would drop everything would be dragged from the armouries, right down to the Brens and quad 50s of WW2 vintage.
I was in the RAF from 1989 and we still had the odd 'woody' in the armoury even then.

I saw a quad 50 being towed past me in Roermond, circa 1989!  To say my jaw dropped was an understatement... :) I also saw a Firefly turret-bunker somewhere around there, but I'd already heard about those.

Yes, I SO want some figures in US helmets with Brens and Super-Bazookas for Dutch militia (and Danes and probably a few others) :) 

Also Bren-gunners in US helmets and shorts with long puttees for WW2 Chinese...

Offline Gunbird

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2018, 09:41:27 PM »
Nationale Reserve called up for rear area security.....Brens and Garands galore. Quad 50.s for bridges and other places. IIRC the MOB (Mobilisation) Complex in Helmond still had a warehouse full of the things (and many, many other 50's and 60's stuff, plus an ammo dump) we decided to shut them down in the late ninieties. They only fully demolished it 8 years ago.

Not sure about Super Bazookas though.

Offline Jemima Fawr

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Re: More Cold War Cloggies
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2018, 11:27:13 PM »
British museums suddenly sprouted Bren tripods when the Dutch sold off their stocks in the 1990s! :)

According to Hans here, there were still some M20 Super-Bazookas knocking around in the National Reserve: https://www.orbat85.nl/