More Cold War Cloggies

[Daeothar]

Dutch Light Infantry squad leader in the nineties myself (regiment Menno van Coehoorn, and later Van Heutz).

We had a mix of FALs with wooden and plastic stocks, and foregrips were mostly dark plastic, with a few black metal ones as well (those were very impopular, because they got friggin' hot when fired for even a short while ).

The wooden stocks were also very, very dark, nearly black in some cases, because we used to rub gun oil into them.

As for UZI's; I only ever handled and saw the folding metal stock versions.

Can't comment on the uniforms too much though; we already had the woodland camo (but still the metal pot helmets). But carried over from the times before, a lot of different types of helmet camo was used; mostly netting, burlap and of course foliage.

We also had a practice of having a small piece of netting or burlap hanging over the front of the helmet (stuck under the elastic helmet cover band) just over the eyes, to prevent showing the dark shadow under the helmet rim when down in cover. Non-regulation, obviously, but in the field, everything is fair game

I believe that practice was also carried over from the times when uniforms were a single colour.

I'm slowly working on my own Team Yankee Dutch force myself, and was surprised at how few changes there were in equipment and vehicles between '85 and '95, apart from some older wheeled vehicles being phased out and the uniforms changing from drab olive to woodland camo...

[Jemima Fawr]

Cheers Daeothar,

Black METAL stocks?!    As you say, that must have got flippin' hot!  I only ever carried a plastic one.

I think you'll agree with me that the mark of a true God among Men is to have carried an FAL/SLR and worn DPM/Woodland camo... 

(of course I went one step further by adding an RAF beret...) 

[Daeothar]

Cheers Daeothar,

Black METAL stocks?!    As you say, that must have got flippin' hot!  I only ever carried a plastic one.

I think you'll agree with me that the mark of a true God among Men is to have carried an FAL/SLR and worn DPM/Woodland camo... 

(of course I went one step further by adding an RAF beret...) 

They were metal foregrips, not stocks (luckily). They were thinner and lighter than the plastic ones, being just stamped sheet metal, but they were annoying for a number of reasons: they never closed perfectly, so they often rattled slightly. They got scalding hot after firing even a single magazine in a short time, and tape would not stick to them, as they always had to be slightly oily to prevent rust. And in freezing conditions, they were extremely uncomfortable to handle...

I ended up being a basic training instructor, so I then got to handle a LOT of rifles, pistols and SMGs during shooting instructions. My personal rifle luckily had a (near black) wooden stock and plastic foregrip (and actually shot straight too...).

And I couldn't agree more; FAL and woodland camo FTW  

I can't top your RAF beret, but when not in the field, I did wear an olive green one with a bright red and shining gold regimental logo...

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Okay, noob question, with the FN SLR, did you sling the rifle muzzle up or down while doing other things?

I am retro fitting an SLR to a pistol wielding figure and was not sure which way up to sling it.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for borrowing your thread.

[Jemima Fawr]

Okay, noob question, with the FN SLR, did you sling the rifle muzzle up or down while doing other things?

I am retro fitting an SLR to a pistol wielding figure and was not sure which way up to sling it.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for borrowing your thread.

From my limited experience (my normal personal weapon was an SMG - we only had SLRs during training), we'd sling them muzzle-up.  The sling-swivels are at the bottom corner of the butt and directly below the gas-regulator.  If you slung it upside-down, you'd have the (very long) muzzle poking you in the back of the leg, or sticking in the ground when you kneel down, which wouldn't be good. 

Daeothar's the infantryman though, so he'd be the expert.

[Daeothar]

Well, there is something to say about that.

We used the sling, with the rifle barrel down. However, we did not use the sling attachments on the buttstock, but rather, we tied the sling around the buttstock at the narrowest point, just behind the pistol grip. This allows for a rapid shouldering of the rifle, and the long barrel does not poke you in the back of the knee.

It was called the Lebanon Sling, as apparently it was used there first by the Dutch UN battallion in the early eighties.

The front sling attachment was also often taped in, to prevent any jingling sounds in tactical situations. Both of these practices were only used in the field though, as the official, parade ground way was still the sling attachments.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Thank you very much, that is very useful.

[Jemima Fawr]

Well, there is something to say about that.

We used the sling, with the rifle barrel down. However, we did not use the sling attachments on the buttstock, but rather, we tied the sling around the buttstock at the narrowest point, just behind the pistol grip. This allows for a rapid shouldering of the rifle, and the long barrel does not poke you in the back of the knee.

It was called the Lebanon Sling, as apparently it was used there first by the Dutch UN battallion in the early eighties.

The front sling attachment was also often taped in, to prevent any jingling sounds in tactical situations. Both of these practices were only used in the field though, as the official, parade ground way was still the sling attachments.

Excellent!  That makes perfect sense... Which is why us officers didn't think of it... 

[Daeothar]

Hey, you know us NCO's usually had a thing or two to say about (2nd) Lieutenants... 

[grant]

.

[Jemima Fawr]

I had a 'Stormtrooper Blaster' and hit about as much with it as the Emperor's Finest...

[Jemima Fawr]

Hey, you know us NCO's usually had a thing or two to say about (2nd) Lieutenants... 

I'll have you know that it was a man's life in the Women's Auxiliary Balloon Corps!

[Ultravanillasmurf]

I had a 'Stormtrooper Blaster' and hit about as much with it as the Emperor's Finest...

Star Wars is accurate!

[Jemima Fawr]

Star Wars is accurate!

Absolutely!  Except that the Emperor's boys only got five-round mags.  We got thirty-round mags with which to completely miss the target.

[Jemima Fawr]

I've added some more Leopards and an M113:

http://www.jemimafawr.co.uk/2019/04/29/going-dutch-building-a-cold-war-dutch-battlegroup-part-3/