What Fantasy mass battle rules are out there?

[aktr]

Hi,

Ever since GW nuked the old world I've had several fantasy armies sat on the shelf in boxes (not a rant against AoS, I have an army for that as well) and I would like to dust them off and get them on the table at some point

I know I could just use the WFB 8th edition rules but I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that might be worth a try.

I tried KoW a few years ago but the magic system was rubbish - basically just another shooting attack and I also had a problem that I had effectively killed an opponents unit but because I rolled snake eyes 2 turns in a row they just sat there and I couldn't do anything about them.

I also know the 9th age is a thing but I would prefer something with a physical book

I was holding out hope for the New one from warlord games but that is apparently warbands

Things I would like
Rank and File
Physical book (available in the UK)
Decent magic system

bonus points if the army lists/rules would let me get a mythological ancients army (Greeks with a minotaur/hydra/Cyclops for example)

Also is its 'shiny' and well supported its more likely to get the attention of my opponent

So what's out there?

Cheers

[jon_1066]

Dragon Rampant is quite new and good fun.  It doesn't have rank and file and the magic may not be to your liking but it is very flexible for re-purposing your old minis.  It's also quite cheap from Osprey.

The old Fantasy Warriors is still available for free from Mirliton.  Nothing to lose on that one.  I remember it as good fun.  You might have to make up some army lists as not all were covered but I think there is a reasonable fan base still playing the game in Italy.

Can't really think of any others - sorry

[6milPhil]

I've been playing around with Kings of War and Lord and Lands, both worth a butchers I think.

[katie]

"The old Fantasy Warriors is still available for free from Mirliton.  Nothing to lose on that one.  I remember it as good fun.  You might have to make up some army lists as not all were covered but I think there is a reasonable fan base still playing the game in Italy."

I also have a download site full of materials at https://www.fysh.org/~katie/wargames/downloads/fantasy_warriors/

We've got summary sheets, notes about army formations, some translated army lists, token sheets, army rosters, compilations of material organised by subject (I believe it's all the material available) and an INDEX!!

The one 'gotcha' with GW->FW moves is that most FW armies are 25mm square bases. I've actually built armies from loose figures in storage so that wasn't a problem. One other player uses movement trays that correct the figure spacing.


The Italian group have ~100 armylists, although for a more advanced version of the game. They're also currently doing a re-write of the materials.

It is still good fun. Very "D6", the magic is wild and erratic, it's less influenced by IGO-UGO than Warhammer. Point sizes are roughly equivalent to WH -- 2000 points is a good size army of maybe 100 figures and you can play out a game in an evening. 3000 points will take half a day.

[Tactalvanic]

Going back in time via the search button:

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=92879.0

It has a number of good suggestions already

[Andrew_McGuire]

Reaper have an overlooked system called Warlord. I own the rulebook, but - SPOILER ALERT! - have never played a game, though I have read it and thought the mechanics - including playing card-based activation - were interesting.

A quick start version can be downloaded for free:

https://www.reapermini.com/pdf/WarlordQuickStart_08-06.pdf

[Hobgoblin]

The two best massed-battle fantasy games out there, in my experience, are Hordes of the Things and Mayhem. The former is a physical book; the latter's available as both a PDF and a printed book.

Of the two, Mayhem has the more detailed magic system. In HotT, magic is quite powerful and can have odd side-effects, but is heavily abstracted.

I've played both quite a bit, but much more HotT. It's a very 'tight' ruleset: it's been going strong since its first release more than a quarter of a century ago and has needed only a couple of tweaks to the rules in that time (swapping the movement rates of two unit types and one other thing I can't recall - but more like minor errata than the sort of inter-edition changes that most games require). The first time I played it was a real 'aha!' moment - I haven't touched Warhammer since. I think HotT gives much more of a genuine mass-battle feel than Warhammer, and it's much more tactical. It's also the most perfectly balanced ruleset out there, which is why it works so well in tournament format.

Mayhem is a bit 'looser' than HotT and allows for wilder tactical gambles. So it gives a slightly different flavour of game. Its only major weakness is a lack of standard unit types (it's build your own). But that isn't a problem for Warhammer players, because there's a free list of Warhammer/Warmaster conversions on the Battlescribe app, with all the standard Warhammer troop types covered.

Both games use fixed blocks of troops. But that's not much of an impediment for Warhammer miniatures, as element frontage for 28mm figures is 60mm (i.e. three Warhammer human bases together). And you play with larger frontages if that suits you better. There are lots of possibilities for sabot basing or using magnets to make miniatures multi-use. I use the same elements for both games; either two or three HotT infantry elements make up a Mayhem square.

As for Greek myth: HotT has lists for Homeric Greeks and Trojans, creatures of Greek myth and Amazons. And of course, you can create any army list you fancy. There are loads in the rulebook, but they're for inspiration rather restriction. And there are rather nice rules for gods.

In Mayhem, you can stat up any army as you see fit, using the points system.

Both rulesets are very much 'rank and file'. In HotT in particular, flanking and support are very important, as is terrain: certain troop types fight really well in rough ground while others are hugely compromised. And the positioning of large monsters adds another layer of uncertainty, given their ability to squash smaller creatures when upset!

One point about both games, but HotT in particular, is that the flavour is in the rules rather than in the rulebooks. The HotT rules are designed to emulate battles in fantasy fiction and myth, and they do a really good job of this. But you get that from playing the game rather than reading the book, which is dry and technical. I think that's a feature rather than a bug, though: the game's the whole point, after all.

[Lowtardog]

Sword and Spear fantasy do the trick for me, units are a single block. No codecs and a nice spreadsheet to build your forces so no head scratching.

There is a Sharpe Practice variant in the works for large skirmishes I am keeping an eye on as the rules are great

[pixelgeek]

Is HotT still in print?

[3 fingers]

I was selling foundry’s god of battle ,took it off sale due to selling over Xmas not read it just flicked through the pics 

https://www.castingroomminiatures.com/collections/god-of-battles/products/god-of-battles-by-jake-thornton

[aktr]

I was selling foundry’s god of battle ,took it off sale due to selling over Xmas not read it just flicked through the pics 

https://www.castingroomminiatures.com/collections/god-of-battles/products/god-of-battles-by-jake-thornton

Cheers 3 fingers, I like the sound of that one, will it still be on sale after Christmas?
Or if I order now will you hold the order until after Christmas?

[Abbner Home]

Is HotT still in print?

My google-fu is not especially strong but I couldn't find it. I was inspired to look by the review above and the best I found was used 1st editions in the 90 USD range.

[Hobgoblin]

It's odd: it seems to be still in print but out of stock at Amazon, etc. It was certainly still available when I looked last, which wasn't that long ago. I wonder if it's just a temporary thing.

[3 fingers]

Cheers 3 fingers, I like the sound of that one, will it still be on sale after Christmas?
Or if I order now will you hold the order until after Christmas?

Hi I had it for sale for a tenner ,postage will be a killer as it’s heavy but I’m uk based as well. I only stopped the thread as wary of posting at this time of year so it will be for sale again end of January etc
Unless your desperate for it , I could post it out Friday as on half day then ?

[LotB]

"The old Fantasy Warriors is still available for free from Mirliton.  Nothing to lose on that one.  I remember it as good fun.  You might have to make up some army lists as not all were covered but I think there is a reasonable fan base still playing the game in Italy."

I also have a download site full of materials at https://www.fysh.org/~katie/wargames/downloads/fantasy_warriors/

We've got summary sheets, notes about army formations, some translated army lists, token sheets, army rosters, compilations of material organised by subject (I believe it's all the material available) and an INDEX!!

The one 'gotcha' with GW->FW moves is that most FW armies are 25mm square bases. I've actually built armies from loose figures in storage so that wasn't a problem. One other player uses movement trays that correct the figure spacing.


The Italian group have ~100 armylists, although for a more advanced version of the game. They're also currently doing a re-write of the materials.

It is still good fun. Very "D6", the magic is wild and erratic, it's less influenced by IGO-UGO than Warhammer. Point sizes are roughly equivalent to WH -- 2000 points is a good size army of maybe 100 figures and you can play out a game in an evening. 3000 points will take half a day.

Hi Katie,
thank you very much for mentioning us.
Our site is this :
http://www.naran.it/naran

 and on this page:
http://www.naran.it/FantasyWars/Immagini/battaglie_page_index.htm
you can see many photos of our Fantasy Warriors battles, for which we use different brands of 28mm miniatures.
We have also added several "historical" armies revisited in a fantasy version. So, if you want to play the Romans against the Orcs or the Greeks against the Goblins you can do it. We did it, with great fun.