*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
January 20, 2019, 08:49:20 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Recent

Author Topic: M10 vs. M4 - why have both a TD and a tank?  (Read 1423 times)

Online Etranger

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 651
Re: Why did M10 exist???
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2019, 02:23:52 AM »
Why not look back to the original documents?
FM-18-5 FM 18-5: Organization and Tactics of Tank Destroyer Units
Tank Destroyer Field Manual, War Department, June 16, 1942
http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/fm18-5-tank-destroyer/index.html
"It's only a flesh wound...."

Offline Ultravanillasmurf

  • galactic brain
  • Posts: 4131
    • Ultravanillasmurf
Re: Why did M10 exist???
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2019, 10:16:25 AM »
For a thorough discussion of the U.S. development of Tank Destroyers, their doctrine, and employment, I would recommend Christopher Gabel's monograph on the subject, which is conveniently available online:

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/7/combat-studies-institute/csi-books/gabel2.pdf
Thanks for that.

Offline MartinR

  • scientist
  • Posts: 215
    • The games we play
Re: Why did M10 exist???
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2019, 10:41:37 AM »
I'm a little late to the party on this one, but the M1 was essentially just a self propelled anti tank gun and that respect no different to the vast range of SP AT guns cobbled together by the Germans, Russians, Italians and to a lesser extent, the British.

What was unusual was US Tank Destroyer doctrine, which was rather more aggressive in the use of SP AT,  envisaging them actively seeking out enemy armour to destroy, rather than moving rapidly to set up nice reliable Pak fronts like the Germans, Russians and British did.

Using WW2 tech, this didn't work too well, but it works very well indeed if your SPAT weapons happen to be AT helicopters. When I'm not on my phone, I'll chip in a bit more.
"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" Helmuth von Moltke

Offline Arrigo

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 800
  • errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum est
    • Forward HQ my new blog where you can laugh at my crappy photos!
Re: Why did M10 exist???
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2019, 03:54:33 PM »
Lots of names and terms I'm not familiar with. But an interesting read.

Out of curiosity could anyone do a quick Shop of the M10 turret on the M4?
It'd be interesting to see.
I did ask around on Facebook to see if a Rubicon turret fits on a M4. But other than figuring out I'd need to modify the turret ring most responses were about the M36B1 frustratingly

because it was done with the M36B1 and not with the M10. From a quick shot I would say it would not be a good idea
/
By the way James, I would say that your imagination is disconcerting. Are you sure you are not a relative of Igor Frankestein? (or was Frankestin?)  8)  o_o
"Put Grant straight in"

for pretty tanks and troops: http://forwardhq.blogspot.com

Offline Ultravanillasmurf

  • galactic brain
  • Posts: 4131
    • Ultravanillasmurf
Re: Why did M10 exist???
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2019, 05:52:43 PM »
Out of curiosity could anyone do a quick Shop of the M10 turret on the M4?
It'd be interesting to see.
I did ask around on Facebook to see if a Rubicon turret fits on a M4. But other than figuring out I'd need to modify the turret ring most responses were about the M36B1 frustratingly

If you look at the instructions
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=407.0
You can see the M10 turret has the full (ish) 69 inch turret ring, whereas the M4 and M36 turret has the (same) reduced bayonet fitting rather than the 69 inch turret ring.

It is a bit irritating that no one does the Sherman with a scale(ish) turret ring, because it makes converting them to a Kangaroo difficult.

This of course means that a Sherman turret will fit on a Warlord Cromwell, but not the other way round (as opposed to real life where the Cromwell turret ring was smaller).




Unfortunately I do not have the kit to hand (see Rubicon forum thread on metal figures).

However, if you do an image search for "t35 tank destroyer" you will see some of the M4A2 based prototype with the original turret.

Offline Griefbringer

  • bookworm
  • Posts: 69
Re: Why did M10 exist???
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2019, 06:48:28 PM »
That Sherman turret on Cromwell hull looks quite stylish, but that boxy Cromwell turret on the sloped Sherman turret looks really awkward. And I am quite fond of the look of the regular Cromwells.

As for the Hello Kitty tanks, there are some scary designs out there - look for them at your own risk.