Mid 80's Bundeswehr Luftlande uniform.

[Rick]

I was looking at the idea of doing a unit of west german airmobile and, while looking up what sort of uniforms they wore saw a b/w photo of what looked like german airmobile of the mid 80's but with camouflage jackets and helmet covers. I was aware that the german army experimented with splittermuster patterns in the 1950's but then dropped camouflage until flecktarn in the late 80's/early 90's.
The question is, did the airborne/airmobile troops wear camouflage jackets and helmet covers in the mid 80's or should they be more properly painted in a similar scheme to the rest of the Bundeswehr, a grey/green jacket, trousers and helmet cover?
Any help would be appreciated.

[von der Tann]

There was no special "combat" uniform in the Bundeswehr at that time (not sure if there is now, apart from a helmet or other special equipment). The Fallschirmjäger wore the olive battledress that everyone wore.
But note that some "Kommandokompanie" (link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commando_Companies_(Deutschland)) may have been issued with experimental equipment, including camouflage patterned uniforms. Unfortunately I have no further information on what kind of experimental camouflage uniforms these might have been. But since we ended up with Flecktarn, some variation of it would be plausible.

[HESH]

Look forward to seeing how you get on with these. 👍

[Rick]

Thanks for the replies - I've also been looking for 1/100 scale Faun KraftKarren; Kraka's for the Luftlande - Roskopf used to do several variants in the 70's but few available today and, of those, none will ship outside Germany or USA. May have to start looking for stl files.

[bluewillow]

I was looking at the idea of doing a unit of west german airmobile and, while looking up what sort of uniforms they wore saw a b/w photo of what looked like german airmobile of the mid 80's but with camouflage jackets and helmet covers. I was aware that the german army experimented with splittermuster patterns in the 1950's but then dropped camouflage until flecktarn in the late 80's/early 90's.
The question is, did the airborne/airmobile troops wear camouflage jackets and helmet covers in the mid 80's or should they be more properly painted in a similar scheme to the rest of the Bundeswehr, a grey/green jacket, trousers and helmet cover?
Any help would be appreciated.

Luftlande were in standard green, the only splinter muster in West Germany was the Bundesgrenzschultz border police and they stopped using the camouflage uniform completely by 1987.

Cheers
Matt

[Rick]

Hi Matt, was just looking at some photo's of West German Fallschirmjager in 1958-9, all in splittermuster camo (I think) and matching helmet covers over their WW2 style fallschirmjager helmets. Apparently they were issued the camo jackets but not helmet covers so they removed the detachable hoods from the jackets and used them instead! That practice of wearing camo helmet covers rather than netting may have persisted far longer than the jackets - I'm sure some of the bundeswehr photo's from the early and mid 80's show fallschirmjager in 'shirt-sleeve order' and cloth camo covers but possibly a different type of camo than the earlier splittermuster types.

[Michi]

The question is, did the airborne/airmobile troops wear camouflage jackets and helmet covers in the mid 80's or should they be more properly painted in a similar scheme to the rest of the Bundeswehr, a grey/green jacket, trousers and helmet cover?
Any help would be appreciated.

No camo then. They just looked like any other infantry.


Have a look there: https://fschjgbtl251.de/chronik-2/1970-1979/  and    https://fschjgbtl251.de/chronik-2/1980-1989/

[carlos marighela]

Yep. The red beret was the only really distinguishing item.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzyYWytHnkU

[Rick]

 Okay. Carlos - not the only distinguishing feature; trousers were much tighter fitting than infantry ones (apparently to stop them flapping about when you head groundwards).
Also Michi - did you take a very close look at those photos? Specifically the helmets? No nets, but camo cloth helmet covers in many of the photos (apologies - I found 1 photo from 1984 where the chap is wearing a net over the top of a camouflage cloth helmet cover!)
I'm perfectly willing to concede that camouflage jackets went out in the late 50's and didn't return until flecktarn and kevlar helmets but the incidence of camouflage helmet covers on the fallschirmjager throughout the 70's and 80's is very interesting.
Thanks Carlos and Michi - with your help I think I can see that there were other, minor differences in uniform!

[carlos marighela]

The point being that in miniature you not likely to find models with tighter tailored trousers. There are what? A couple of 15mm and one 28mm manufacturers of late Cold War Bundeswehr of any description? I rather doubt most people would notice the trouser cut. By the by if you look closer at michi's link you'll see not all the trousers are closely tailored.

A more valid distinction at least in 28mm might be armament.  Retractable stock G3 vs solid stock. Of course unless you choose to do the conversion work yourself, it's a moot point.

Now if you plonk your toys down in front of a massive CH-53 Helicopter, I think most folk will just assume they are paras and thus good to go.

[von der Tann]

Okay. Carlos - not the only distinguishing feature; trousers were much tighter fitting than infantry ones (apparently to stop them flapping about when you head groundwards).
Also Michi - did you take a very close look at those photos? Specifically the helmets? No nets, but camo cloth helmet covers in many of the photos (apologies - I found 1 photo from 1984 where the chap is wearing a net over the top of a camouflage cloth helmet cover!)
I'm perfectly willing to concede that camouflage jackets went out in the late 50's and didn't return until flecktarn and kevlar helmets but the incidence of camouflage helmet covers on the fallschirmjager throughout the 70's and 80's is very interesting.
Thanks Carlos and Michi - with your help I think I can see that there were other, minor differences in uniform!

You might be interested in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvkj0TqnWM4

At 0:26 you can see "Fallis" jumping out of a plane wearing some kind of helmet cover. After that, the guys on the Kraftkarren are all wearing helmet covers.
You will also notice that the other infantry units in the video (Panzergrenadiere, Jäger and Gebirgsjäger) all have similar equipment.
And yes, I know that Panzergrenadiere were and are by definition not an infantry unit of the Bundeswehr.

This website (https://fschjgbtl273.de/index.php) might be interesting for you. I found this picture on it.



The soldier is wearing the olive battledress with helmet cover and net. This was the same equipment worn by my comrades in PzGrentBtl 52 in 1996, who had not yet been issued with Flecktarn.

[Michi]

The only thing officially issued at that time was the net: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdfvcAAeukk

Covers were either selfmade from camouflage fabric (and passed on from quitting comrades to new recruits) or aquired/bought from other armies' surplus. I remember the US woodland ones did fit on German helmets too.

[Ursus Maior]

You might be interested in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvkj0TqnWM4

At 0:26 you can see "Fallis" jumping out of a plane wearing some kind of helmet cover. After that, the guys on the Kraftkarren are all wearing helmet covers.
You will also notice that the other infantry units in the video (Panzergrenadiere, Jäger and Gebirgsjäger) all have similar equipment.
And yes, I know that Panzergrenadiere were and are by definition not an infantry unit of the Bundeswehr.

This website (https://fschjgbtl273.de/index.php) might be interesting for you. I found this picture on it.



The soldier is wearing the olive battledress with helmet cover and net. This was the same equipment worn by my comrades in PzGrentBtl 52 in 1996, who had not yet been issued with Flecktarn.

Ah, yes the 90s uniform mix. It's quite uncanny. The Bundeswehr was restructuring all the time and had to integrate former NVA soldiers - some of them permanently - and then get rid of all the NVA gear. At the same time, a new generation of weapons and gear became available. Some parts quicker than others. One of these things were the new Flecktarn uniforms. They arrived as a new set of uniforms but at roughly the same time as the new kevlar helmets and the KTS95 rigs, similar to the US receiving PASGT and BDUs in woodland camouflage. However, the helmets were issued a bit later and as such camouflage liners for the old M1 helmets were bought to update the helmet into the new system of BDUs. Then the BDUs were late, too, and in consequence olive fatigues were paired with M1s that were covered in Flecktarn liners.

[Rick]

I'd noticed that the helmet covers were in at least 3 or 4 different patterns in the 70's and 80's era photographs - including one chap wearing flecktarn body armour over green/grey fatigues and a woodland dpm cover.
Ok then, no differences between the Infantry branches? Some or most would have worn camo helmet covers even though they weren't issued and we have an enduring idea of the 1980's West German uniform with a net over the helmet.
Gives me an answer that I was looking for though.

[Michi]

Ok then, no differences between the Infantry branches?

None, apart from piping and beret colours. Berets weren't worn in the field though. This is also not limited to infantry - all branches wore the same uniform (even Navy on land and Luftwaffe on ground). There were overalls for aircraft and tank crews, though. ABC decontamination forces had special overgarments too and helicopter crews were allowed to wear grey leather blousons. Single pieces of Flecktarn weren't widely spread before the early nineties.