*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 09:36:45 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1686452
  • Total Topics: 118100
  • Online Today: 811
  • Online Ever: 2235
  • (October 29, 2023, 12:32:45 AM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: (COMMERCIAL) Empress Miniatures' NEW Vietnam Range  (Read 384687 times)

Online carlos marighela

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10758
  • Flamenguista até morrer.
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #120 on: March 25, 2019, 09:56:27 PM »
At the risk of upsetting people’s ‘professional opinions’ there were undoubtedly significant numbers of of PLAF/NLF (VC) troops deployed in the battle for Hue. They probably accounted for at least a third of the forces deployed and you don’t need to rely on Bowden to come up with that figure.

 The only thing I can recall Bowden remarking on when it comes to attire is that the communist forces had been issued with new uniforms. Certainly there were local guides and a smallish number of students and locals joined the fray. Presumably they were not issued with uniforms.

Yes, the PAVN (NVA) formed the core of the US-ARVN opposition and on a personal note I would like to see them sooner but I recognise that the sculpter in any project needs to be given latitude to do what appeals to them. That way the project moves forward and you get the best work from them.

That there is significant enthusiasm for this range should not need saying. Personally, I’ve always found the existing ranges somewhat lacking, I’m sure I’m not alone. The fact that a first rate sculptor is tackling what potentially is a huge subject has clearly inspired a lot of customers and potential ones.

It won’t mean that we won’t adapt or use existing figures where suited to our tastes, I’m already in the process of converting some figures, while I wait for the Empress range.

I say let’s give ‘em their head and be very grateful they are doing this.
Em dezembro de '81
Botou os ingleses na roda
3 a 0 no Liverpool
Ficou marcado na história
E no Rio não tem outro igual
Só o Flamengo é campeão mundial
E agora seu povo
Pede o mundo de novo

Offline Arrigo

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1074
  • errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum est
    • Forward HQ my new blog where you can laugh at my crappy photos!
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #121 on: March 25, 2019, 10:02:38 PM »
But will they be acceptable together, and if they are, why would you then buy the figures from Empress?

considering we are mixing figures together from the dawn of the hobby, especially in different units... I suspect plenty this habit is not dying soon despite the pearl of wisdom some business expert is throwing to pigs like me...

I buy figures from Empress because:

a) they fit in my collection
b) I like the sculpts and the attention to the detail
c) I like the chaps and chapesses (no I did not invent this... it came from Professor Brian Holden Reid... I just got brainwashed into using it) running the company!



 I think a much bigger show stopper is the fact that there are plenty of ranges around (thanks god none from Empress...) that started giving you a couple of basic packs for the opposing sides and then got nowhere.  The business' person approach that has been mentioned earlier is just one possibility.  In countless forums the merit of bit and dribbles, vs fully fledged force for new ranges have been debated, and, knowing how different each one of us is, basically both sides could be right and wrong at the same time, without the need of being lectured about 'business' approaches.

As the so called 'characters': you need officers, you need RTO, you need medics in games from squad to company size...

And I am sufficiently old to remember posts here bemoaning the lack of decent and complete ARVN offerings in 28mm... in this same forum...

Quote
At the risk of upsetting people’s ‘professional opinions’ there were undoubtedly significant numbers of of PLAF/NLF (VC) troops deployed in the battle for Hue. They probably accounted for at least a third of the forces deployed and you don’t need to rely on Bowden to come up with that figure.

sources would be nice... not something I am expecting from the poster too...

<rant mode on>
and I reiterate... Bowden's book is historical crap, and I am not an isolated academic in saying this. I am not saying that all his books are bad, but this one is.  Actually I find axabrax comments rather insulting and condescending, while I offered a simple professional opinion. While I can give him some recognition for having sprung some nice new miniatures, I sincerely hope that his arrogant pile of shit will not shape the range (of course not... we have been teased Australians!).  Said that we have gamed Hue before Bowden garnered money from it, and probably there will be more gamer doing it without even knowing about the book or the TV... I also doubt the book narrative will be such a driving force in the sales of a new Vietnam range... if it is... well probably I have to reconsider my idea of the intelligence of the average wargamer and bow to 'common wisdom' about our category (yes I read some of the usual comments on wargamers again...).
<rant mode off>
"Put Grant straight in"

for pretty tanks and troops: http://forwardhq.blogspot.com

Online carlos marighela

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10758
  • Flamenguista até morrer.
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #122 on: March 25, 2019, 10:29:00 PM »
Ah, the Kevin Kiley school of argument is alive and well. Good oh!

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Mad Scientist
  • *
  • Posts: 974
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #123 on: March 25, 2019, 10:33:40 PM »
Man! Somebody woke up angry today!

Anyway, as long as the chaps at Empress do with the range the same they do with their Zulu War or ECW ranges, I will be perfectly happy.  Besides I am a slow -very slow- painter, so I guess that NVA/VC will be released before I finish painting whatever US/ARVN is released first.

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Mad Scientist
  • *
  • Posts: 974
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #124 on: March 25, 2019, 10:39:52 PM »
Bowden's book is historical crap, and I am not an isolated academic in saying this. I am not saying that all his books are bad, but this one is. 

To be honest I don't give a damn about the rest of your rant -it is personal with the other guy, so it's not my business- but this part of your comment got me curious. Why do you say that Bowden's book is crap? Would you point to a review that expands your criticism? I am not an expert in Vietnam War -read just a couple of books, besides Bowden's- so I am surely missing the problems in Bowden's book. 

Online carlos marighela

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10758
  • Flamenguista até morrer.
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #125 on: March 25, 2019, 10:53:29 PM »
“On 30 January, some of the enemy shock troops and sappers entered the city disguised as simple peasants . With their uniforms and weapons hidden in baggage , boxes, and under their street clothes, the Viet Cong and NVA mingled with the Tet holiday crowds .* Many donned ARVN uniforms and then took up predesignated positions that night to await the attack signal..”

US Marines in the Vietnam War, The Defining Year 1968, p166.

The USMC Official History.

Offline Ultravanillasmurf

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 9302
    • Ultravanillasmurf
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #126 on: March 25, 2019, 10:56:56 PM »
Knowing that I am not knowledgeable about the subject, I had to do a search on this site to find out who is this Bowden (his book is mentioned on the Gringos thread not this one).

"Knowledgeable Friend" warnings of course: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Bowden

As they always say, YMMV.

Will the TV series have music by Jan Hammer?


Offline Ultravanillasmurf

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 9302
    • Ultravanillasmurf
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #127 on: March 25, 2019, 11:08:40 PM »
I will not be mixing figures from the dawn of wargaming, my 30+ year old Platoon 20  figures are not much use ^___^.

Besides the Osprey Campaign book, I have read little on the subject (and I know this and admit it freely). I am more than happy to take into consideration any information anyone graciously offers me.

I bought the French paratroopers way back when they were released because I liked the figures (and bought them from Empress as I had liked their moderns). That (and the aforementioned Platoon 20) are probably the only figures I own over the this period.

So I will be looking for a range of figures that will interest me, and having one side makes it more likely that they will end up sitting in a box.

I understand the frustration in a purported range being advertised and not being delivered. I do wonder whether this has been due to interest fizzling out from the manufacturer or that they have not been financially viable.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 07:16:37 AM by Ultravanillasmurf »

Offline axabrax

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1293
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #128 on: March 26, 2019, 12:07:04 AM »
My goodness someone’s very intolerant of views other than his own and takes things very personally. I’ve been on this forum for more than a decade and have just as much right to express myself here as you. I also preordered a bunch of the miniatures. Did you, or are you just wishlisting? This was a pleasant thread until you decided that no one is allowed to disagree with you without it being an affront. I tell you what, I will leave and you can have the floor entirely to yourself and convince everyone that yours is the only right view. Sheesh!

considering we are mixing figures together from the dawn of the hobby, especially in different units... I suspect plenty this habit is not dying soon despite the pearl of wisdom some business expert is throwing to pigs like me...

I buy figures from Empress because:

a) they fit in my collection
b) I like the sculpts and the attention to the detail
c) I like the chaps and chapesses (no I did not invent this... it came from Professor Brian Holden Reid... I just got brainwashed into using it) running the company!



 I think a much bigger show stopper is the fact that there are plenty of ranges around (thanks god none from Empress...) that started giving you a couple of basic packs for the opposing sides and then got nowhere.  The business' person approach that has been mentioned earlier is just one possibility.  In countless forums the merit of bit and dribbles, vs fully fledged force for new ranges have been debated, and, knowing how different each one of us is, basically both sides could be right and wrong at the same time, without the need of being lectured about 'business' approaches.

As the so called 'characters': you need officers, you need RTO, you need medics in games from squad to company size...

And I am sufficiently old to remember posts here bemoaning the lack of decent and complete ARVN offerings in 28mm... in this same forum...

sources would be nice... not something I am expecting from the poster too...

<rant mode on>
and I reiterate... Bowden's book is historical crap, and I am not an isolated academic in saying this. I am not saying that all his books are bad, but this one is.  Actually I find axabrax comments rather insulting and condescending, while I offered a simple professional opinion. While I can give him some recognition for having sprung some nice new miniatures, I sincerely hope that his arrogant pile of shit will not shape the range (of course not... we have been teased Australians!).  Said that we have gamed Hue before Bowden garnered money from it, and probably there will be more gamer doing it without even knowing about the book or the TV... I also doubt the book narrative will be such a driving force in the sales of a new Vietnam range... if it is... well probably I have to reconsider my idea of the intelligence of the average wargamer and bow to 'common wisdom' about our category (yes I read some of the usual comments on wargamers again...).
<rant mode off>

Online carlos marighela

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10758
  • Flamenguista até morrer.
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #129 on: March 26, 2019, 01:22:35 AM »
To be honest I don't give a damn about the rest of your rant -it is personal with the other guy, so it's not my business- but this part of your comment got me curious. Why do you say that Bowden's book is crap? Would you point to a review that expands your criticism? I am not an expert in Vietnam War -read just a couple of books, besides Bowden's- so I am surely missing the problems in Bowden's book.

Bowden makes the occasional error of detail and there is a definite and unsurprising journalistic approach to the subject. He is far more critical of some of the senior and not so senior leaders in the battle such as Tolson, LaHue, Westmoreland and battalion commanders like Gravel. It's by no means a definitive account but then one doesn't exist and likely never will. What you discern of his agenda or politics, if any,  I will leave up to you.

That said it is a very readable account and if only because of its timing, he holds the advantage of having accessed some Vietnamese participants. Something notably absent in Nolan's Hue 1968 or the official publications. Actually, it's a far better book than Nolan's effort, which IMO isn't as well written and is largely uncritical of any decision making by the marines.

YMMV.

Offline Sparrow

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1302
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #130 on: March 26, 2019, 05:42:21 AM »
Hi all

I’m, sadly, in no position to argue whether the Bowden book was good or bad (not knowing enough about the subject.... yet) , and it would make a really interesting seperate thread, but can we keep to the subject of the range? From what I have read this thankfully looks like it’s covering a lot more than just Hue (eg Australians?) so why not just let Empress have your wish list for the war? (A vote for Air Cav and NVA from me please!).

Can I just add,  Empress + Paul Hicks = fantastic long term project for me. Thanks to all involved! Hell - you bring them out in whatever order you want... just keep ‘em coming!

“Happiness is a cool LZ”!

Cheers all!
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry!

Offline Ragnar

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Mastermind
  • *
  • Posts: 1352
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #131 on: March 26, 2019, 05:58:43 AM »
Aaand, just like that I am drawn to a period of history that I have never showed any interest in gaming before.

Even bought the Bowden book.
Gods, monsters and men,
Will die together in the end.

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Mad Scientist
  • *
  • Posts: 974
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2019, 06:16:34 AM »
Hi all

I’m, sadly, in no position to argue whether the Bowden book was good or bad (not knowing enough about the subject.... yet) , and it would make a really interesting seperate thread, but can we keep to the subject of the range? From what I have read this thankfully looks like it’s covering a lot more than just Hue (eg Australians?) so why not just let Empress have your wish list for the war? (A vote for Air Cav and NVA from me please!).

Can I just add,  Empress + Paul Hicks = fantastic long term project for me. Thanks to all involved! Hell - you bring them out in whatever order you want... just keep ‘em coming!

“Happiness is a cool LZ”!

Cheers all!

Hear! Hear!

Offline Elk101

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Elder God
  • *
  • Posts: 10510
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #133 on: March 26, 2019, 06:48:29 AM »
This isn't a board I look after, but in the interests of keeping this thread about the miniatures from Empress and with my moderator's hat on, please do not turn it into an argument about personal opinions on Bowden's book, etc, etc. If you want to take it up on pm or some other way, that's up to you.

Let's get back to the figures.

Thank you

Offline Juan

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 936
    • Manche´s Walpurgisnacht
Re: Empress - Hue 1968 - First Glimpse of the New Range
« Reply #134 on: March 26, 2019, 07:45:26 AM »
Returning to the trail...
Thank you a lot, Empress Miniatures and Paul Hicks, for these really nice miniatures. Now, to buy, paint and play with them.  :)