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Author Topic: Happy Chappy's Jaunt to Burgundy! - (12/11, P.10 - 1420s Foot Knights)  (Read 27127 times)

Offline HappyChappy439

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Hi again!

Another update, with more members of Antoine's retinue today, this time I've finished up the block of dismounted archers (or at least 12 of them, not sure if on the tabletop that 18 would be better, but hey!)

I've got a mix of Perry plastic and Metals in there to fill out the unit, focusing on liveried bodies where possible.





And combined with some of the Coustilliers to reference our ol' friend Master W.A.





Let me know how they've turned out!

Offline Charlie_

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Really cool! Would love to see a whole army like that..

Offline Mr.J

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They look fantastic! Well done

Offline commissarmoody

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Great work!
"Peace" is that brief, glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.

- Anonymous

Offline Mick_in_Switzerland

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Those are amazing - well done :-*

Offline painterman

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Very nicely done- they look the part!
Simon

Offline poulppy

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Beautifull !
* Miniatures diary at aleaminiatures.blogspot.fr/
* Flags banners blog at  https://flagspennonsandbanners.blogspot.com/
* My Other blog on Helmets : attenti

Offline HappyChappy439

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Thanks for the kind words everyone!

Really cool! Would love to see a whole army like that..

I think my plan for the 1460s-1470s era units is to have a few blocks of units for some notable commanders at Montlhéry (the bastard of Burgundy, the Count of Saint-Pol, Charles himself, Duke of Cleves, etc.) though, technically speaking, only their 'archers du corps' would be specifically liveried, but I might take some liberties there!

This time however, for a bit of a change of pace I've decided to paint up some units for duke John the Fearless. I've been trying to get a lot of reading done over the last couple of months around the Duchy of Burgundy in the HYW, but it's slow going where my French is lacking (no better time to learn though, right?). In particular, I've been using Les Armées Des Trois Premiers Ducs De Bourgogne as a source, and I've contacted a few history professors for advice on a paper I'm doing on the topic so that's been extremely helpful, in particular I'm extremely grateful for the help and support from Bertrand Schnerb who very kindly took the time to answer some questions!

For this update, I've painted up a block of Flemish pikemen, who occasionally (though much less often than I'd expected) appear in rosters, generally only to defend places within Flanders itself, such as in 1405, where a large group (129) of pikemen is mustered to defend the towns of Flanders against the English. For this particular block, I've used as a reference the Pikemen who appeared at the Siege of Chateau-Chinon in 1412, where Jean du Bois, Lord of Annequin was accompanied by 25 pikemen.





And here's Jean du Bois (listed as "monseigneur du Bos et d'Anekin" in the book) himself, he later dies at Agincourt, but I figure for later years I can use him to represent his heirs.



My plan when painting up the unit was to have it be as livery agnostic as possible (thanks Charlie for the inspiration!), and with fairly drab colours for the poorer common soldiery, so that with a change of banners and commanders they can be substituted in for other armies, such as Liégeois, Scots, Swiss, or Westerosi, I guess!



The models themselves are a mix of Perry plastics and metals, with the plastics being a kitbash between the Agincourt bodies and WotR mercenary pike arms.

Let me know how they've turned out!

[Edit] In retrospect, the civilian colours I chose of drab green, red and yellow ended up making them look like traffic lights, whoops!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 12:40:53 PM by HappyChappy439 »

Offline Captain Blood

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I like ‘em!

Multi tasking is good.

A fair number of my Murrey-and-blue liveried Yorkists double very handily as Tullys ;)

Offline OSHIROmodels

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Splendid progress  8)
cheers

James

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Instagram account - oshiromodels

http://redplanetminiatures.blogspot.co.uk/
http://jimbibblyblog.blogspot.com/

Offline poulppy

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Great Army

Offline Thoronde

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For this update, I've painted up a block of Flemish pikemen, who occasionally (though much less often than I'd expected) appear in rosters, generally only to defend places within Flanders itself, such as in 1405, where a large group (129) of pikemen is mustered to defend the towns of Flanders against the English. For this particular block, I've used as a reference the Pikemen who appeared at the Siege of Chateau-Chinon in 1412, where Jean du Bois, Lord of Annequin was accompanied by 25 pikemen.

'
In what publication did you find the numbers of the pikemen being present at Chateau-Chinon & the campaign of 1405?

Offline HappyChappy439

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'
In what publication did you find the numbers of the pikemen being present at Chateau-Chinon & the campaign of 1405?

I'm using "Les Armées Des Trois Premiers Ducs de Bourgogne" by Jules De La Chauvelays (the Scholar Select version, if that helps!). It's a really detailed, interesting account of the full compositions, and expenditures for the Burgundian armies, and gives an insight into what proportion of troops would come from each province, or accompanying particular knights, lords and esquires

The Pikemen in the Campaign of 1405 gets described from page 113-115, specifically as a defense of Gravelines (and the surrounding area), with a large group of crossbowmen. While the Siege of Chateau-Chinon is described from page 203-207 (with the pikemen in particular being mentioned on page 205).

I will say though that a lot of the information is purely numerical or financial, so there's not much description of the appearance or equipment of the Burgundian forces, as a heads up!

I hope that helps!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 08:56:57 PM by HappyChappy439 »

Offline HappyChappy439

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Hi again everyone!

This time I've been dabbling in some speculative vexillology! Focusing on John the Fearless in particular.

During my researching around symbols and expressions of factional identity in the Armagnac-Burgundian war, I've found it actually surprisingly difficult to get a clear depiction or description of John the Fearless' own flags and banners, being a pretty concrete expression of allegiance. I dug around manuscripts and paintings to try and find something, but it seems that there is much less in the way of surviving visual material (compared to his grandson's own flags 50 years later).

We know that Duke John did have a personal standard, so I set out to try and work out a design to use!

As a starting point, I decided to work off of the assumption that the personal standard would be vastly different to the heraldic banner. So with that in mind, I went to look into symbols and devises associated with John the Fearless (in which this page by the University of Poitiers has been a huge help http://base-devise.edel.univ-poitiers.fr/index.php?id=1494 ).

During the Armagnac-Burgundian Civil War, Duke John adopted the 'rabot' (a carpenter's plane) as a personal device, partly to spite his rival, the Duke of Orléans who chose a knobbly stick as his own symbol. Similarly, images of John are also associated with a hops branch, and a level (for extra carpentry symbolism).

There's a depiction of John the Fearless on a throne, with a banner behind him in Pierre Salmon's Dialogues from the 1410s, with hops branches and 'rabots' featuring heavily, which gives a nice visual base to work from, however it isn't a battlefield standard.


There's a similar recreation of this banner in the 'Tour de Jean sans Peur' in Paris:


Interesting to note, the Duke's personal colours (light-green, white, and later adding black) are not used, instead crimson and gold are on the agenda!

Looking at other standards of the era, they often feature the mottos of their owners, so I wanted to integrate Duke John's own motto "ICH HOUD." 

For extra information, I'd also been digging around sources like "Memoires Pour Servir A L'histoire De France Et De Bourgogne," and Bertrand Schnerb was again kind enough to provide some quotations and sources describing accounts and purchases of banners and standards by Duke John.

One of these quotes describes an order of banners, standards and pennons in 1406 during a campaign against the English in Calais, where there is a description of how the ducal standard looks (he ordered three made in this campaign). I've tried to translate it to the best of my ability:
"Three standards, 4 to 5 aunes long...with a large rabot, and the field embroidered with many small rabots and shavings"
The same account describes lance pennons being ordered, all coloured vermilion with gold rabots and shavings sewn on them.

Another one of the quotes provides a fairly specific description of a purchase in 1418 in preparation for a campaign against the English. Part of it describes an overview of the appearance of one of these standards, where my rough translation and paraphrasing of works out as:
"Purchase of a large standard, using five pieces of crimson satin for the field, and five aunes (a unit of measurement) of white satin. Embroidered with rabots, and shavings from the rabots"

So my attempt, based on the descriptions, and speculation based on existing personal standards of the era (mostly Henry V's), I've come up with the following design:





And here's Duke John with his standard


Let me know what you think! And if I've gone catastrophically off the mark with the design any criticism and feedback is welcome!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 05:57:15 PM by HappyChappy439 »

Offline Breazer

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Great looking force so far Happy! great stuff

 

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