Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News:
Donate to the Lead Adventure Forum to keep it alive!
Home
Help
TinyPortal
Search
Calendar
Gallery
Search
Stats
Donations
Login
Register
Lead Adventure Forum
»
Forum
»
Miniatures Adventure
»
The Conflicts that came in from the Cold
(Moderator:
Westfalia Chris
) »
Vietnam Ethnicity
User
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
April 29, 2024, 09:11:25 PM
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Donate
We Appreciate Your Support
Search
Advanced search
stats
Members
Total Members: 10457
Latest:
RAFMSilverFox
Stats
Total Posts: 1691222
Total Topics: 118381
Online Today: 905
Online Ever: 2235
(October 29, 2023, 01:32:45 AM)
Users Online
Users: 38
Guests: 519
Total: 557
Brigadier Cram
Severian
dberna67
Rhelyk
Bolingar
sjwalker51
Chimpy
Macone1
Painterz
FramFramson
Tarnegol
Charlie_
YPU
Wellington Bonaparte
CapnJim
brunei35
Robert1995191
Diablo Jon
Twin Cities Gamer
Will Bailie
Maxromek
Hobgoblin
baner
Schrumpfkopf
jim100
zemjw
Hippocleides
ithoriel
Ultravanillasmurf
von der Tann
Cait Sidhe
Recent
"quotIt's your Troop now, Mr...
by
Lord Raglan
[
Today
at 09:10:54 PM]
Turnip28 project of Fredd...
by
Freddy
[
Today
at 09:09:59 PM]
Re: The Last Hurrah Proje...
by
Freddy
[
Today
at 09:08:56 PM]
Constable Bertrand's Fant...
by
Freddy
[
Today
at 09:07:39 PM]
Cthulhu project in 1/35
by
Freddy
[
Today
at 09:06:28 PM]
Paint Recommendations for...
by
Mick_in_Switzerland
[
Today
at 09:05:46 PM]
Shogun remake
by
NurgleHH
[
Today
at 08:54:24 PM]
(NEW) Post a picture of t...
by
joekano
[
Today
at 08:43:07 PM]
Shtim's Dutch Colonial Ad...
by
joekano
[
Today
at 08:40:20 PM]
(SALE) 22/4/24 New items ...
by
bergschotten
[
Today
at 08:28:40 PM]
Fooling around with 6th E...
by
anton ryzbak
[
Today
at 08:26:59 PM]
15 mm wagons with solid w...
by
boywundyrx
[
Today
at 08:25:46 PM]
SI’s Quar
by
Silent Invader
[
Today
at 08:23:52 PM]
Stargrave "quotstarter-kit"quot...
by
Darkson71
[
Today
at 08:22:43 PM]
Dipping My Toe into Fallo...
by
joekano
[
Today
at 08:18:28 PM]
« previous
next »
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Down
Author
Topic: Vietnam Ethnicity (Read 1239 times)
Oldboy
Librarian
Posts: 106
Vietnam Ethnicity
«
on:
May 12, 2019, 09:25:28 AM »
A genuine enquiry
From what I see in pictures on the internet, it looks as if African Americans fought in the same regiments alongside white troops and this is how I am depicting my Empress figures. I have seen reference to the contribution made by Native Americans and others during the war. Am I able to mix skin tones in regiments?
I would prefer to do this if accurate as it will give more personality to my figures. Also I have most of the Foundry skin tone paints and would like to use them.
Logged
Cubs
Galactic Brain
Posts: 4927
"I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: Vietnam Ethnicity
«
Reply #1 on:
May 12, 2019, 09:54:30 AM »
Yeah, in 1948 desegregation in the US military was introduced via executive order 9981. From then on, ethnic minorities were not organised into their own units.
Logged
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.
Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter
Oldboy
Librarian
Posts: 106
Re: Vietnam Ethnicity
«
Reply #2 on:
May 12, 2019, 10:00:14 AM »
Thank Cubs
I guessed as much but you know how anal painters can be regards accuracy
Frank
Logged
carlos marighela
Elder God
Posts: 10878
Flamenguista até morrer.
Re: Vietnam Ethnicity
«
Reply #3 on:
May 12, 2019, 10:02:51 AM »
The US Armed Forces were officially desegregated in 1948*. Afro Americans and Hispanic Americans were actually over-represented in the Army and Marines due to the vicissitudes of the US draft system. So yes you are free to mix skin tones within squads.
Think of Muhammed Ali’s famous refusal to serve in Vietnam.
”My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother, or some darker people, or some poor hungry people in the mud for big powerful America. And shoot them for what? They never called me Black, they never lynched me, they didn't put no dogs on me, they didn't rob me of my nationality, rape and kill my mother and father. ... Shoot them for what? How can I shoot them poor people? Just take me to jail.”
*Appalling and shameful how late this was. Even so, all black units lingered on in the Army until the end of the Korean War.
Logged
Em dezembro de '81
Botou os ingleses na roda
3 a 0 no Liverpool
Ficou marcado na história
E no Rio não tem outro igual
Só o Flamengo é campeão mundial
E agora seu povo
Pede o mundo de novo
huevans
Mad Scientist
Posts: 755
Re: Vietnam Ethnicity
«
Reply #4 on:
May 12, 2019, 12:38:26 PM »
I would not bother with Native American troops, unless you specifically want to paint 1 or 2. They are simply not a large % of the US population.
Black troops - yes! And wildly over-represented in the army and even more so in front line infantry units.
Logged
Arrigo
Mastermind
Posts: 1074
errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum est
Re: Vietnam Ethnicity
«
Reply #5 on:
May 12, 2019, 03:56:02 PM »
Actually black troops were under-represented in the army as a whole. Only 10.6 percent of the people actually serving in South East Asia were recorded as Black in official statistics, this compared on 13.5 percent of the whole population. Hardly an over-representation. On the other hand the casualties figures are higher, 12.1. Yet it is still not an over-representation. Also draftees represented less than 25% of the whopping 2,594,000 personnel that served in the border of the RVN (Republic of Vietnam). [Source: Gillmore and Giangreco from official DoD stats].
Basically you can simply mix troops in your units, but soldiers of african-american descent will be a small minority.
While I agree with Carlos about the fact that segregation was not a positive thing, I would not say that desegregation in the US military come appalling late compared to other countries or to the american society in general.
Logged
"Put Grant straight in"
for pretty tanks and troops:
http://forwardhq.blogspot.com
Cat
Mastermind
Posts: 1258
All Purpose Neko-Sensei
Re: Vietnam Ethnicity
«
Reply #6 on:
May 12, 2019, 05:06:30 PM »
The percentage of blacks in combat varies tremendously by year. The lower total average was brought about in response to protests at how disproportionate things were in the early years and then especially in '67 and '68.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties#Disproportion_of_African_American_casualties
Edit: the official percentage of draftees does not quite reflect the full reality of the draft. One of my older brothers, along with others in his graduating high school class of '67, had a low draft number. Consequently they 'volunteered' before being drafted, because word was out that the drill sergeants at boot camp came down hardest on the draftees.
«
Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 07:25:59 PM by Cat
»
Logged
Arrigo
Mastermind
Posts: 1074
errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum est
Re: Vietnam Ethnicity
«
Reply #7 on:
May 12, 2019, 07:14:22 PM »
of course wikipedia is actually reliable... I stand by Giangreco.
Logged
commissarmoody
Galactic Brain
Posts: 8672
Re: Vietnam Ethnicity
«
Reply #8 on:
May 12, 2019, 10:24:08 PM »
Just do what I do, in 10-20% African American, 10-20% to represent Latinos, Pacific islanders...etc With darker completion then your avrage mid-west farm kid and your golden! And if you want to paint a few odd Native Americans and East Asians in the mix you won't be to far off.
Logged
"Peace" is that brief, glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.
- Anonymous
carlos marighela
Elder God
Posts: 10878
Flamenguista até morrer.
Re: Vietnam Ethnicity
«
Reply #9 on:
May 12, 2019, 10:31:29 PM »
“Actually black troops were under-represented in the army as a whole. Only 10.6 percent of the people actually serving in South East Asia were recorded as Black in official statistics, this compared on 13.5 percent of the whole population. Hardly an over-representation. On the other hand the casualties figures are higher, 12.1.”
The clue is in the casualty figures. Black troops may well have been under-represented in terms of over all numbers serving in Vietnam but you need to bear in mind that about a third of all US Forces deployed to Vietnam were in non-combat arms. African Americans were far more likely to be assigned a combat arm MOS. If you look at overall figures then, yes the number who served is roughly on par with the percentage rate of general US population according to census records*
The figures quoted above are misleading anyway African Americans represented 14.1% of
enlisted
combat deaths. If you throw in officer deaths the figure drops to 12.5% because black Americans were far less likely to achieve officer rank. At one point, circa 1965-66, the Afro-American enlisted death rate was around 20% or roughly double the rate of overall service participation. This caused such a hue and cry amongst civil rights leaders and the black population as a whole that President Johnson called on the military to lower black casualty rates.
Bottom line: black Americans were over-represented in combat units. Unless you are looking up a platoons worth of typists best to depict the racial mix.
*US census data would have the the black population for the period in question from between about ten and a half and a shade over eleven percent. We know this to be misleading as at least part were categorised as Hispanic and some as white.
Logged
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Up
« previous
next »
Lead Adventure Forum
»
Forum
»
Miniatures Adventure
»
The Conflicts that came in from the Cold
(Moderator:
Westfalia Chris
) »
Vietnam Ethnicity