Missing product pictures in online miniatures shops

[Antonio J Carrasco]

But many manufacturers that are not much bigger than cottage industries manage to photograph -even paint!- most of their ranges. I am thinking of Aventine Miniatures, Footsore Miniatures (well, they have grown a lot in last couple of years!), Steel Fist Miniatures, ecc... Agreed that their ranges are not that big, but each new release is photographed before uploading in the website. Also, not always a great pro-photography is necessary; look at Iron Duke Miniature's photos of the Indian Mutiny range, at Empress Miniatures; many of them are photos that even with the best will can't be considered as professional, and yet they convene enough information to decide their customers to buy (my credit card knows!)

Of course, everyone manages his business as he feels right. I believe that photos are vital part of making business on-line, but that's me.

[black hat miniatures]

But many manufacturers that are not much bigger than cottage industries manage to photograph -even paint!- most of their ranges. I am thinking of Aventine Miniatures, Footsore Miniatures (well, they have grown a lot in last couple of years!), Steel Fist Miniatures, ecc... Agreed that their ranges are not that big, but each new release is photographed before uploading in the website. Also, not always a great pro-photography is necessary; look at Iron Duke Miniature's photos of the Indian Mutiny range, at Empress Miniatures; many of them are photos that even with the best will can't be considered as professional, and yet they convene enough information to decide their customers to buy (my credit card knows!)

Of course, everyone manages his business as he feels right. I believe that photos are vital part of making business on-line, but that's me.

And as far as I am aware no one has released a new range without photographing it as they went a long in recent years.  It is the people who, like Ian and myself, have inherited large ranges that haven't been photographed as they date from pre-internet who have not been able to find the time to get them all photographed.

My new ranges through Imperial Miniatures have no photos (last on the market in 2007 with minimal website) and there are 3-4,000 54mm figures to cast, assemble, paint and photograph - that is going to take a while...

Mike

[Yuber Okami]

Good grief at the low quality apologetics:

• it's too much of work to cast all the pieces – no it isn't, it's called YOUR JOB!
• it's too much of work to photograph all the pieces – firstly it's called YOUR JOB; secondly eBayers and online auctioners routinely take hundreds and thousands of unique photos in improvised conditions in addition to their day jobs, family life and other daily chores, whereas sellers would need to take the stock photos only once per item type, would do it during their work hours and could arrange for a dedicated photo setup at their non-residential work place
• fulfilling orders takes all the time – if the amount of gold and silver coming through doors and windows is felt overwhelming, a cheapo teen/summer help assistant or two will relieve one of physical work while not impacting too much the money flow (or perhaps even allowing for doubling or tripling the income).
  

 

But I fear it has a lot to do with taxes - in some countries, if you get less than X money from your small, secondary business you don't get to pay any taxes. Expanding may become a tax management nightmare and a lot of work some people don't want because of age or any other considerations (I know for sure Navwar's owner is in that club). Yeah, they could try to scale up the business, but not everybody is willing to sacrifice a comfortable, stable job for the excitements of becoming a business-owner.

[Fighting15s]

Anyway, to illustrate why a benchtop shot just isn't good enough: three pictures. One unedited, complete with benchtop, taken moments after casting this morning, using a phone; a second edited, polishing the turd as much as possible. Both are unacceptable for commercial use. The third, one I prepared earlier, is a properly inked, evenly lit and edited picture using a camera - and the only one good enough for use (sorry it's a different figure).








To suggest that a quick shot taken during manufacture can then be used as the basis of a stock photo that will last years and always be available to re-edit and enhance is quite simply a nonsense.

[Fighting15s]

My new ranges through Imperial Miniatures have no photos (last on the market in 2007 with minimal website) and there are 3-4,000 54mm figures to cast, assemble, paint and photograph - that is going to take a while...

You should really add that as you are casting and painting them, they get photographed for the site! Before someone accuses you of procrastinating.

[Fighting15s]

But many manufacturers that are not much bigger than cottage industries manage to photograph -even paint!- most of their ranges. I am thinking of Aventine Miniatures, Footsore Miniatures (well, they have grown a lot in last couple of years!), Steel Fist Miniatures, ecc... Agreed that their ranges are not that big, but each new release is photographed before uploading in the website. Also, not always a great pro-photography is necessary; look at Iron Duke Miniature's photos of the Indian Mutiny range, at Empress Miniatures; many of them are photos that even with the best will can't be considered as professional, and yet they convene enough information to decide their customers to buy (my credit card knows!)

Of course, everyone manages his business as he feels right. I believe that photos are vital part of making business on-line, but that's me.

Unfortunately, as owners of wargames businesses we can't comment on what we think about the quality of pictures on other wargames businesses' websites - it's unprofessional. However, in general, I think it's important for the style of the photographs within a range to be consistent otherwise a site starts to look a bit of a mess.

I don't actually need convincing that photos are an important part of trading online, but customer satisfaction about their orders (i.e. speed of processing and delivery) comes first. When news that I was taking over Gladiator broke, I wasn't asked when I would have new photographs of the miniatures, I was asked how long it would be before customers would be able to buy the figures again. Similarly, if there are new releases from Eureka or AB without pictures, I don't get asked whether I have pictures: I get asked when they will be in stock and how soon can customers buy them.

[black hat miniatures]

But I fear it has a lot to do with taxes - in some countries, if you get less than X money from your small, secondary business you don't get to pay any taxes. Expanding may become a tax management nightmare and a lot of work some people don't want because of age or any other considerations (I know for sure Navwar's owner is in that club). Yeah, they could try to scale up the business, but not everybody is willing to sacrifice a comfortable, stable job for the excitements of becoming a business-owner.

Black Hat Miniatures has been my sole income since 2011, but I have never had any intentions of scaling up the business and have now downsized slightly as it generates enough income (I have earned around the average UK wage for those years) and I have no intention of working all hours there are making toy soldiers...

Mike

[Jagannath]

Strikes me there's some voices in here that don't know how lucky we all are. Lots of wargames businesses are essentially hobby, and we're lucky these folks sink their cash, time and effort to allow us to have access to miniatures they've produced.

So 'Thanks' to those below and others mini sellers reading this - photos or not.

[Tactalvanic]

As an overstressed/underslept.. professional IT employee I enjoy my little hobby.

I appreciate the hard work of others sometimes..

AS such its nice to see clear piccies of what is on offer when I go looking for an extension/extra geological layer for my mountain of madness in miniature.

That said, I can fully appreciate, an old range, with either no or old crap 70s pictures, etc - don't necessarily get photo'd and published all nice on the modern internet.

Frankly if I am looking for old stuff,

1. I am glad some old codger  , somewhere is still making them available..
2. I fully expect I might have to check lost minnies etc and other places to clarify what they might look like...

That's my choice, other peoples choices are up to them.

I don't particularly want to overwork the elderly ranges/owners. as then neither might be available anymore...

Joking aside.

Whats clear here is that manufacturers are here, seeing this subject (again) and feeding back politely some reasons why its as it is, and some in some ways suggesting how they are working on it.

Thanks guys!

Although the camera idea on the production line keeps reminding me of Jabberwocky smithy scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcGtOsEUPgo


Which has now made me aware they are re-mastering it apparently in 4k!

There's pictures (moving) available for it to..
 

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Unfortunately, as owners of wargames businesses we can't comment on what we think about the quality of pictures on other wargames businesses' websites - it's unprofessional. However, in general, I think it's important for the style of the photographs within a range to be consistent otherwise a site starts to look a bit of a mess.

I don't actually need convincing that photos are an important part of trading online, but customer satisfaction about their orders (i.e. speed of processing and delivery) comes first. When news that I was taking over Gladiator broke, I wasn't asked when I would have new photographs of the miniatures, I was asked how long it would be before customers would be able to buy the figures again. Similarly, if there are new releases from Eureka or AB without pictures, I don't get asked whether I have pictures: I get asked when they will be in stock and how soon can customers buy them.

Ian

AB or Eureka are not good examples, I am afraid! After all, both are very well established brands with a loyal customer basis that know exactly what they are buying, even without pictures involved (I know I am one of those customers!.. as an aside, how is it going the transfer of AB/Eureka? Have you found a new distributor yet? I need to put an order soon, but don't know if I should do it now or wait until the transfer is completed... decisions, decisions!)

Mind that I understand and sympathize with you and Mike. I get how much work is involved in photographing and editing (seven years working in an advertisement agency and then another four in a magazine!). As I said, nobody better than the guy that pay the bills to know what is good or not for his business. And yet I stand by my earlier message: we live in a world where image is half the sale; to expand your client basis you will need photographs of your models. Although, I don't think we disagree there, do we?

Best
Antonio

[Captain Harlock]

My opinion as a customer, but also as a professional working in advertising, im a graphic designer, is that there is no excuse for at least displaying the product you sell. 20 years ago it would take alot of money to hire a photographer, or countless hours plus materials if you had the skill and equipment. Nowdays there are so many solutions that can cut the costs and time significantly. I mean common guys there are so many available mini photo booths exactly for small objects and most eshops now have very easy control panels unlike the ones of the early internet days.
You are selling something that its 100% about appearence. Thats the number one factor judging a miniature. its like going to the store and not be able to see what you buy. Would you accept that? I think not.
Its not only about the product, its about the overall image of a business. A good looking and most of all functional eshop, plays a great role for your company prestige. The goal is to appear as something bigger than you are or at least as reliable as an established company.
It boggles my mind seeing people having badly maintained webpages, being unresponsive to messages, or not have correct contact or shipping info. Would you order from a website that appears shady? I guess no. Why would anybody else?

[Ultravanillasmurf]

@Captain Harlock - you are obliquely hitting one of the points.

Twenty years ago it cost money to get stuff professionally photographed, now anyone can point an autofocus camera at at a figure, slap it on a e-commerce site and think job done.

And it shows. Geocities may be gone, by the echoes linger like a bad meal.

I suspect a number of vendors spent a lot of money on the original sites, and are probably stuck with them and the arcane workings involved.

Fighting15s' demonstration above shows how difficult it is to get a good shot, and most people looking for some ancient relic item for their collection probably have the paper catalogue with the line drawings anyway.

I think I resyked all my GZG catalogues.

New stuff, not much excuse (a bare metal shot and preferably a painted one).

[Charlie_]

I can understand the arguments given in favour of businesses here. If it really is a small one-man operation, and you're doing just fine as you are, and photographing could well be a near impossible undertaking given the examples of inheriting massive older ranges that will need to be cast in full before they can be photographed.....Fair enough. It's your business, you can do what you want with it, and if you've got regular customers who earn you a living, then why change?

However from a customer's point of view, all I can say is it is genuinely MASSIVELY FRUSTRATING and INFURIATING when you can't find pictures of figures you might be interested in buying. And old, out-of-date, bizarrely designed websites are HUGELY OFF-PUTTING, and I for one can name many personal examples of where I have been considering buying something, and in the end have decided not to.

Again, maybe this doesn't matter. Maybe the business doesn't need to grow, or it isn't desired. Maybe it doesn't need or want any new customers. And I can empathise with the reasons for not updating or taking photos, and not being up to date with replying to emails. But god damn it's annoying from the potential customer's point of view.

[Captain Harlock]

@Captain Harlock - you are obliquely hitting one of the points.

Twenty years ago it cost money to get stuff professionally photographed, now anyone can point an autofocus camera at at a figure, slap it on a e-commerce site and think job done.

And it shows. Geocities may be gone, by the echoes linger like a bad meal.

I suspect a number of vendors spent a lot of money on the original sites, and are probably stuck with them and the arcane workings involved.

Fighting15s' demonstration above shows how difficult it is to get a good shot, and most people looking for some ancient relic item for their collection probably have the paper catalogue with the line drawings anyway.

I think I resyked all my GZG catalogues.

New stuff, not much excuse (a bare metal shot and preferably a painted one).

I wont be the one to diminish the importance of the work of professional photographers. After all money have to go around.
But if I was the owner of a small miniature company, and it was well beyond my budget to hire somebody, then I would buy or even make a small photo booth. Its a controled enviroment that allows you to take at least decent photos and if you want to go the extra mile, even good photos. I dont say that its child's play, but its not as hard as most people think.

[Blackwolf]

If taking photos is so easy,why don't we see more threads on the of LAF members work? Come on,we can't  all be insecure about our painting standards...