Warlords new Korean range

[manchesterreg]

I would say though , that it's unlikely Vietnam by Warlord would see the light of day, as we have two outstanding manufacturers at least already.

[carlos marighela]

Is it just me or could the movie "71: Into the Fire" be Warlords main source of information about the North Koreans?

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/71:_Into_the_Fire

I think you might be on to something there. That’s assuming that there wasn’t a Korean War edition of The Beano that was drawn upon for inspiration.

[evil_steve]

Given that warlord does pop culture miniatures (Rorke's Drift characters,  Kelly's Heroes, M*A*S*H), could the SKSs be there because they are in popular representations of the conflict?

[carlos marighela]

Actually, I think you are right there. The intended market for Warlord is a mass market not ‘button and rivet counters’ like me. Leveraging popular culture is an obvious marketing ploy.

That said, it’s entirely possible to do so without compromising the integrity of the range. Look at Empress’ Hollywood packs for their Zulu and Vietnam War ranges. Likewise the deliberate Airfix tribute poses in Eureka’s WW2 Australian range.

[FreakyFenton]

Actually, I think you are right there. The intended market for Warlord is a mass market not ‘button and rivet counters’ like me. Leveraging popular culture is an obvious marketing ploy.

That said, it’s entirely possible to do so without compromising the integrity of the range. Look at Empress’ Hollywood packs for their Zulu and Vietnam War ranges. Likewise the deliberate Airfix tribute poses in Eureka’s WW2 Australian range.

Which were also in Warlord's recent Afrika Korps kit. I.e. the grenade lobbing Korps member and such.

[evil_steve]

Forgive me if I'm wrong,  but I think there are maybe 3-4 figures with SKS in the NK army box.  Is that really compromising the integrity of the range? Think of how many details they had to work on to make those figures and write that book. Is some margin of error allowable?

[tin shed gamer]

I would agree if it wasn't for their track record on poorly researched figures and kits They've dropped the ball on right across the board. They've even screwed up a zombie range.
I won't comment on sculpting simply as its unfair too . I'm more aware than most of the constraints and pressures of pushing clay .
There's simply no excuse for poor research in the 21st century .Back in the days when you physically had to get off your backside and leave the house to even begin to research a topic.May be. But in world where information can be gleamed on you phone whislt waiting for a coffee!
This isn't a case of buttons but of respect. This is a conflict in living memory.
You wouldn't stand in front of a thirty year old veteran of Afghanistan and tell him you busy representing his life and you couldn't be bothered to research coz they're only toy soldiers and it doesn't really matter  .(I'd happily put money on it not going well for you.)
Or my be its just easier to take this approach because these veterans are in their eighties.

I personally won't go near modern games at shows or clubs .
Simply because those litlle 28mm bits of tin are me and my friends.  Unlike those bits of tin my friends didn't go into boxes at the end of the day ready for next weekend.They just went into boxes.

So to me and many others it does matter. This hobby is a wonderful piece of nonsense that fills the days.Which I'll happily defend your right to indulge in.
When your playing historical games your skirmishing with the trauma of past lives.and when you become dismissive and indifferent to this uncomfortable truth. It doesn't hurt to be reminded that we are not all Past.
So roll dice ,laugh ,play and enjoy the whole thing.

[88D]

Forgive me if I'm wrong,  but I think there are maybe 3-4 figures with SKS in the NK army box.  Is that really compromising the integrity of the range? Think of how many details they had to work on to make those figures and write that book. Is some margin of error allowable?

Its 8-9 out of 47 which is quite a percentage. We can only hope they will be divided up by weaponry in retail which would work out for people who want wartime norks and people who want post war ones.

[carlos marighela]

Its 8-9 out of 47 which is quite a percentage. We can only hope they will be divided up by weaponry in retail which would work out for people who want wartime norks and people who want post war ones.

Judging by their previous releases, they probably won’t. They’ll no doubt be lumped into their standard 10 figures ‘squad packs’ which with few exceptions rarely match actual squads.

[88D]

Judging by their previous releases, they probably won’t. They’ll no doubt be lumped into their standard 10 figures ‘squad packs’ which with few exceptions rarely match actual squads.

That will most likely be the case unfortunately

[evil_steve]

Excuse me for reiterating a point, but there are authoritative sources (Veteran memiors and museums) which state the SKS was there.  Given that evidence, the inclusion of the rifle can be argued, but cannot be stated to be categorically innacurate.  This means that Warlord is not disrespecting the memory of Veterans (there's at least one Veteran who left written testimony supporting them) nor are they compromising the integrity of the range. 
As I've started by making a case against the greivous sin of disrespecting Veterans, I can move on to the lesser sin of disrespecting content creators.  There's a team of people who worked hard to make a book and models that we can enjoy (or choose not to).  Slandering those folks with the charge of disrespecting Veterans and compromising their integrity over a point to which they can defend themselves with authoritative sources is just plain mean. 

[commissarmoody]

Going to have to stop you there. One dude most likely mistaken a SVT or other soviet, or german world war 2 era simi-auto for an SKS. )Hell might have even been an M1, young Lt's are know to embellish stories.)  Also China didn't start fielding them tell 1956 and the NRK's didn't start manufacturing them tell 63.
I have spoken to many vets who despite seeing combat, can not tell their ass from their elbow when it comes to identifying firearms. And Hackworth is the only one I ever read who said he saw one.
Also until some one can produce a photo, and documentation showing it being used, issued, captured. I am going to say that its a no show for this war. (I have seen a few photos from a Korean military museum, but those where captured in Vietnam while ROK forces served there)
Hell I have read books with folks saying that they saw Viet-mien with AK47s and SKS's in 1948. 
I respect the Authors and I am looking forward to seeing their product. But humans are not perfect. And I will toss this up there one of those Boo Boo's. 

[evil_steve]

A book written by a participant in the events described is what's known as a primary source.  It is, in and of itself, evidence and can be cited in doctoral dissertations on the subject. Given the existence of such evidence, you can argue with Warlord's conclusions but cannot state that they did not do research.
As the charges in this thread against Warlord, namely that they are disrespectful of Veterans and have compromised their integrity, rest on the underlying assumption that they did not do research, those charges cannot be sustained in this case.

[commissarmoody]

If I am accused  of saying they didn't do their research.  Then I am guilty. And don't try to lord the word of vets over me. Every adult in my famly including myself are vets. We are not saint's and if you ever want to meet some of the best liers in your life, I'll take you to my local VFW. 
Stories change, or are miss remembered especially 40 plus years on.
Hell things that were held as the Lord's truth since the end of world war two or even the Vietnam are being found to be fabricated or embleshments.
The SKS has no documented and confirmed use in the Korean conflict. Unless you count MASH they used it a few times in that show. 

[evil_steve]

I'm not lording anyone's word over anyone else.  Nor am I endorsing the veracity of Mr. Hackworth's statements.  What I am doing is applying the rules of evidence used in academia to this issue.  I'm not doing it to say that there were or were not SKSs in Korea but to say that someone could have done rigorous research and concluded that there were. You can disagree with Warlord's conclusions but you can't use those conclusions to argue that they were disrespectful to Veterans or lack integrity because they have authoritative evidence to the contrary.