"Archer Cavalry" Italian Wars

[Stuart]

But yep as mentioned above it depends on the period you’re going for and moreover available figures. Historical accuracy is one thing but sometimes it’s not possible with what’s out there unless you’re keen on converting figures.

Ditto for rules for that matter.

As long as there’s a distinction that they’re lighter armed than the gendarmes they’ll be fine. Available figures is always the compromise for the Italian wars though it’s getting better.

Steelfist have recently released a pack which are spot on and there’s more coming too.

I’ll get back in my box now 

[Charlie_]

I’ll get back in my box now 

You're welcome to come out of the box and share your thoughts with us any time, it's always interesting!

In fact I'm actually reading through all your blog this week.... from start to finish! I started following it two or three years ago, and was aware that I'd missed many many years of blogging and painting that had got you to the point where found it. So I'm enjoying reading about your first use of the Perry plastics, your first green stuff sculpting, your first painted Frenchman, etc.... with the knowledge of what it's going to grow to over the coming years!!! 

[Stuart]

That’s very kind of you Charlie, it’s certainly been a learning curve and there’s no end insight yet !

[Leman]

Took a look at the Steel Fist Archer cavalry and I reckon a bit of green stuff  work on some of my Venexia lighter gendarmes could produce something similar.

[olicana]

Hi Stuart,

In 1515 the King (Louis XII) decreed that the main cities should maintain armourers to manufacture bows for the archers of the ordonnances and that captains should ensure that there would be 'a good number of archers and crossbowmen drawing the bow well from the saddle or on foot.'

I've seen it somewhere that because of a shortage of Stradiots the French did occasionally band Archer cavalry together in separate units to fill that role. Used as such, a crossbows would be needed. The quote has a Stradiot substitute ring about it. Your thoughts?

[Goliad]

I love this picture from the Cronaca del Ferraiolo. Charles VIII entering Naples ahead of Gendarmes and Archers with crossbows.

[Leman]

Two 15mm examples: on the left is the lighter armoured gendarme from Venexia, whilst on the right is French Archer Cavalry from Alternative Armies. The Venexia figure could be given a crossbow from the range of separate weapons provided by Ancient and Modern Army Supplies (Donnington).

[Stuart]

Hi Stuart,

I've seen it somewhere that because of a shortage of Stradiots the French did occasionally band Archer cavalry together in separate units to fill that role. Used as such, a crossbows would be needed. The quote has a Stradiot substitute ring about it. Your thoughts?

Definitely and that would be great to represent in miniature. The other source of confusion is the term ‘Argoulet’ which in the early Italian wars appears to refer to Balkan light cavalry but at some point it merged into just being a term for a mounted crossbowman / arquebusier which is something different altogether. I wonder if a lot of the confusion isn’t helped to things being lost in translation 

[olicana]

Possibly more representative picture of a Gendarme and his two lance armed archers.



If two thirds of a 'Gendarme' formation (the archers) were crossbow armed, you would think there would be many mentions of their effect. Some may argue that a lack of evidence doesn't prove they were not used but, given the numbers of heavy cavalry composed in the 'lance structure' you'd think there would be mentions of horses and the higher ranks of society being brought down by crossbows, or perhaps their employment to break into pike squares if they were being used en masse - the latter something that gets mentioned as a novel tactic as soon as pistol armed cavalry (reiters) come onto the scene.

As seen in a previous post, I think the issue of crossbow was possibly for use when archer cavalry were to supplement Stradiot numbers, or substitute for them when Stradiots were not available. Not to mention whilst employed in garrisons, etcetera; which would make a lot of sense.

[Condottiere]

Regarding uniformity in the lances, from History & Uniforms #2, a plate caption from the Agnadello article:

(page 24) Knight of the Charles d'Amboise’s company, with the captain symbol on the coat: the wild man with a green mace in his hand. The historian Paolo Giovio points out that at the French captains used their personal distinctive figures embroidered in silver or gold on the coats of their men, ether in front or back. Marshal of France Gian Giacomo Trivulzio had for personal symbol the square marble clock, with an iron sting the middle and opposite of the sun. However, in the miniatures from the Chroniques of Jean d'Autun, his knights appear dressed in red and yellow as in the king company. Charles de Bourbon Montpensier, Great Constable of France, had painted on surcoats of his company a winged deer, while the wheel symbol was adopted by Captain Louis de la Tremouille. Finally, the cavalrymen of Louis d'Ars wore coat of white and yellow with red bars. These were figures and colours of some French captains present at Agnadello.

[Stuart]

That’s great to know, thanks. Do you have an image of the illustration?

[Condottiere]

That’s great to know, thanks. Do you have an image of the illustration?

The forthcoming The Italian Wars Volume 1: The Expedition of Charles VIII into Italy and the Battle of Fornovo should have some relevant plates, if the cover's an indicator:

[Yarkshire Gamer]

Looking forward to that book, even though I have done the bulk of the army.

Regards Ken
The Yarkshire Gamer

[Leman]

Also looking forward to that book and will collect the series if it continues 

[Khurasan Miniatures]

My suspicion is that the Archers who are described as dismounting to fight were the Guard Archers, who seem to have been retained in their traditional form as longbowmen longer than the bulk of the archers from the ordonnance companies. 

Longbow archery was not native to France but a transplant from England.  It was taken up in the end period of the Hundred Years War, but it would have been difficult to maintain the training necessary to use the weapon at anything approaching effectiveness.  The Francs Archers petered out as an effective force, more and more of them being armed with the more familiar crossbow as time went on, until the longbow was withdrawn altogether.  It's not hard to imagine a similar thing happening in the ordonnance companies.

When having the French Archers made for our upcoming Italian Wars Range, I had them made as lighter versions of gendarmes, with lighter lances, but had a wrapped longbow and an arrow bag made as separate pieces, so the gamer can stick them on if he feels the Archers still carried the equipment (which they may have, even if it was only used for sieges).

Here are our 15mm French Archers as a WIP.  The Archer in the middle has the wrapped bow and arrow bag added to show how it looks.