4Ground website issues?

[ivor13]

Agree with Elbows, unfortunately sounds like the KS has caused quite a bit of problems - it'll  be very disappointing if trying to create a new miniature game and figure line will have caused this collapse. Should have just kept the focus on terrain.
They have been running a 25% off everything sale all month and hearing all this, despite the fantastic discount, makes me extremely leery to order anything 

[Elbows]

While I hate to see 4Ground possibly go out of business, I don't believe they're the kind of company to steal/rob people in their closing days (if that's the case).  I haven't heard anything untoward about their business practices - though if you're a KS backer that might be a concern.

[Daeothar]

This is rather disconcerting, even if I have nothing riding on the KS.

It seemed to me that 4ground were going from strength to strength in the last couple of years. Their products are top of the line and very popular; every time I see their stand at a show, it's packed with people and stuff sells.

It would be a real shame if they were to fold due to business issues; it certainly can't be their products.

And yes; like many others, I've been ogling that gigantic inn for a couple of years now. Totally impractical, difficult to store and of limited value in play, but man, how cool is that thing eh?

Here's to hoping everything is as well as 4Ground makes it out to be... 

[Riley.Keith]

A 25% off sale as well ? I did not know what, I have to agree sounds like a bit of a cash grab.

Agree with Elbows, unfortunately sounds like the KS has caused quite a bit of problems - it'll  be very disappointing if trying to create a new miniature game and figure line will have caused this collapse. Should have just kept the focus on terrain.
They have been running a 25% off everything sale all month and hearing all this, despite the fantastic discount, makes me extremely leery to order anything 

So you don''t think going bust, changing your website hurriedly and starting up as a new business without telling anyone and then running a 25% off sale and denying anything is actually wrong is not untoward

While I hate to see 4Ground possibly go out of business, I don't believe they're the kind of company to steal/rob people in their closing days (if that's the case).  I haven't heard anything untoward about their business practices - though if you're a KS backer that might be a concern.

[Elbows]

Honestly?  No.  None of that makes me think they're suddenly money-stealing criminals....that's a bizarre leap.

[robh]

The "I'm all right Jack and to hell with you" behaviour is very reminiscent of the end of Maelstrom Games.  Passed existing stock and assets to a new business entity run by the same people, left the debts and creditors with the old company.
Then carry on as if nothing has happened and turn a blind eye to the people you have left out of pocket.

Not illegal, but certainly not the business practice of anyone I would ever trust or deal with again.

[Elbows]

I concur, but only if that is what happens (and is proven).  Just seems a lot of immediate judgment based on very little information.

I hope that's not the case, but seems like it could be.  I'd rather solid proof is provided before I cast judgment.

[bearonparade]

I'm afraid to be the bearer of bad news but there is solid proof. I would point out that I was for many years a banker dealing with Insolvency of just this size of company so I have a bit of experience here. It is a Creditors Voluntary Liquidation rather then a Members Voluntary Liquidation meaning that the company is bust and there is no way that anything can be just transferred to another entity just like that - including responsibility for completing the Kickstarter. They couldn't do this as a legal obligation since the Kickstarter backers are unsecured creditors and this would have preferred them in the liquidation. There are very strict rules on this sort of thing and KS backers are with those at the back of the queue for any payout.

It is possible for someone else to voluntarily supply the items in the KS but there is no obligation to do so.

In any event there is nothing to stop any backer from lodging a claim with the liquidator and this would not have any impact on the 4Ground Publishing since it is in the estate of 4Ground Ltd.

I have posted this as there seems to be a lot of confusion going around but rather than take my word for it feel free to contact the liquidator directly, details on the Gazette

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3301622/

[boneio]

I would advise caution given that 4ground publishing doesn't appear to exist on Companies House.
Their new website also doesn't list a postal address which is a requirement of trading online...

I think I'll only be buying in-stock items from re-sellers until the picture is clear.

[Riley.Keith]

Hey Elbows, I agree, I did not for one moment say anything illegal was happening I was just making the same point as others have made that all it not rosy and we cannot deny there are some thing which are not by the rules.

Honestly?  No.  None of that makes me think they're suddenly money-stealing criminals....that's a bizarre leap.

[Kitsune]

I’d been eyeing up La Haye Sainte........but maybe I’ll hold

[Riley.Keith]

Posted on the bolt action FB pages, and basically

We want to talk but out solicitor says no. If all was good why is your solicitor telling you not to say anything ?

We won't honour credit notes we gave out and we have no legal obligation to the kickstrter backers but and here is the kicker 'Would still like to produce the game "as we see fit"'

[Tactalvanic]

Put it on the shelf next to Hero Quest 25th Anniversary then I guess.

[Elbows]

So, is the Fabled Realms group breaking off from 4Ground (and which of them is bankrupt?).

It will really frustrate me if a good company like 4Ground ended up the victim of a poorly run Kickstarter...I feel like people would have learned about this risk by now.

On the plus side (sadly?) a company who does laser cutting stuff can liquidate its assets easily.  Machines are sold off...files are sold to someone else, etc.  The above posters though make it sound like it's a restructuring to avoid paying creditors.  So that's unfortunate.

[Riley.Keith]

4Ground has gone bust - Fabled Realms is part of 4Ground so yes is the short answer they are both ex parrots and it looks from the small statement so far that them thinking they could burn the dept and the creditors and salvage something of KS is not so simple as it sounds without the creditors coming after them. As I said the other day far from a simple everything is fine restructure.

So, is the Fabled Realms group breaking off from 4Ground (and which of them is bankrupt?).

It will really frustrate me if a good company like 4Ground ended up the victim of a poorly run Kickstarter...I feel like people would have learned about this risk by now.

On the plus side (sadly?) a company who does laser cutting stuff can liquidate its assets easily.  Machines are sold off...files are sold to someone else, etc.  The above posters though make it sound like it's a restructuring to avoid paying creditors.  So that's unfortunate.