Dumb Napoleonic Saxony question

[vodkafan]

Are Westphalians and Saxons the same thing? I fancied some of the Calpe Miniatures Saxons for my French Peninsular force , but I wanted to paint them as Westphalians in the white and blue facings. Are the uniforms and shakos the same?

[the commissar]

Different states but I think mostly the uniforms are very similar, the cuffs may be different (depending on the sources you look at!) but I think that the main difference is the style of side arm with the Westphalians using a French style sabre-briquet and the Saxons a German style hirschenfanger (not sure about the spelling of these two).


The sabre-briquet is curved and has a hand guard to the hilt whilst the hirschenfanger is straight and has no guard.

Later most Westphalian fusiliers probably did not carry a sword side arm wearing just a single French style cartridge belt with the bayonet attached on the right

The shako badge is different but if you are using the covered ones it does not matter.

[Jemima Fawr]

The critical difference is that Westphalian elite companies (grenadiers and Voltigeurs) had fringed epaulattes.  The Saxons didn't have fringed epaulettes.

[vodkafan]

Ah  many thanks the commissar, good info. I believe officially no fusiliers carried swords by 1809 , I will have a good look at the Calpe ones .

[vodkafan]

The critical difference is that Westphalian elite companies (grenadiers and Voltigeurs) had fringed epaulattes.  The Saxons didn't have fringed epaulettes.

Thanks. I have only just had this idea and haven't yet even got the relevant Osprey titles.  Thought I would just throw it out there. It looks like it I can get round the few differences then !

[Jemima Fawr]

Thanks. I have only just had this idea and haven't yet even got the relevant Osprey titles.  Thought I would just throw it out there. It looks like it I can get round the few differences then !

Yeah I've had the same thoughts wrt AB Figures Saxons.  If AB only did a Saxon guardsman (who did wear fringed epaulettes) in shako that would open up a whole raft of possibilities wrt Westphalia, Berg, Hessen-Darmstaedt, etc.

[huevans]

Have you checked the new AB's in later post 1812 habit veste, fringed epaulettes, cross belts and covered shakos?

[Jemima Fawr]

Cheers Huey!

Yes, I had heard that they were on the way, but there's nothing on the AB Figures website.  I was rather hoping for earlier Confederation types with full shako-ornamentation - cords and plumes - like the Saxons.  And grenadiers in bearskins would be nice... But beggars can't be choosers and they'll do the job! 

[huevans]

Cheers Huey!

Yes, I had heard that they were on the way, but there's nothing on the AB Figures website.  I was rather hoping for earlier Confederation types with full shako-ornamentation - cords and plumes - like the Saxons.  And grenadiers in bearskins would be nice... But beggars can't be choosers and they'll do the job! 

I suspect that the covered shakos are a convenient way of making the little chaps suitable for everything from French Waterloo to pre 1812 Saxony, Berg and Westphalia. You can always put in a request for some bearskin variants with Eureka, I guess. They will be on the website in early September.

If you are looking for suitable other little AB's for conversion projects, might I recommend the Nassau and Netherlands figures. Lots of fellows in single breasted jackets with either covered or decorated shakos. It wouldn't take much, if any green stuff and filing to make them into all sorts of other chaps.

[Jemima Fawr]

I suspect that the covered shakos are a convenient way of making the little chaps suitable for everything from French Waterloo to pre 1812 Saxony, Berg and Westphalia. You can always put in a request for some bearskin variants with Eureka, I guess. They will be on the website in early September.

If you are looking for suitable other little AB's for conversion projects, might I recommend the Nassau and Netherlands figures. Lots of fellows in single breasted jackets with either covered or decorated shakos. It wouldn't take much, if any green stuff and filing to make them into all sorts of other chaps.

That's very kind of you, but I think you underestimate my sheer level of modelling incompetence...