9th Century Spaniards/Franks - Brainstorming

[Ataman]

As it stands, I'm currently busy working on both a thesis and an army for my "historical" game of choice, the Horus Heresy. However, I've been keeping myself motivated by brainstorming a possible (actually) historical army for the future, to do triple duty in Saga, Hail Caesar, or Age of Sigmar (as it's the only one of the three with a local community).

I've narrowed the list to two possibilities, both in the 9th century, and either of Franks or Spaniards, and I am currently leaning towards the latter. I've been following Victrix's releases for the "Dark Ages" (their word for Hastings, apparently???) closely, and I've fallen in love with how detailed the Saxon figures they've previewed have been. I have attached some photos below.

The Fyrd:


Armoured warriors:


Though not confirmed, I believe both sets will come with the option of either round or kite shields, and Victrix sells extra shields separately, so getting all round shouldn't be an issue. The helmets are a bigger trouble, and while sprue previews have shown many older style spangenhelms and multi-part nasal helmets, I would still likely need to shave down some single-piece nasals to be flatter, then build up "bands" with either greenstuff or paper and add rivets with dabs of glue.

Both of these units could easily be used to build the kind of shieldwall infantry needed for the period, and the Fyrd (if they don't come with javelins already) could be converted into skirmishers without too much hassle. I do have some reservations about the facial hair, as those long mustaches fit Saxons or Franks much better than they do Spaniards in my opinion, but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth! 

The biggest issue, however, is that Victrix likely won't be releasing cavalry sets in the near future; a bit of a baffling decision considering Normans are meant to be one of the "big three" of this release. For this reason, I would need to either grab metal cavalry figures (of which none exist for Spaniards, but some for Carolingians from Gripping Beast), or convert cavalry out of plastic, again likely out of GB's Dark Age Cavalry or Goth Nobles.

The aforementioned Goth Nobles, for reference:


My main concern with the Goth Nobles especially is that GB's style is noticeably "hand-crafted," to politely say that they're a bit lumpy compared to the much smoother details of Victrix's CAD-made figures. They should still roughly fit the 9th century, as what few sources exist mention the Christians' equipment being a mixture of old-fashioned things and imports from Frankia. Some head, sword, and shield swaps would also, I think, do a lot to unify the look between the two.

Would greatly appreciate any comments or advice! Doubly so if anyone has got their hands on the Victrix Vikings, and has some GB plastic figures to compare with for scale and aesthetics.

[The Inscrutable Dr. Huang]

"Dark Ages" (their word for Hastings, apparently???)" Correct! In Wargamerese "Dark Ages" means Saxons, Vikings, and Normans.

[Ataman]

"Dark Ages" (their word for Hastings, apparently???)" Correct! In Wargamerese "Dark Ages" means Saxons, Vikings, and Normans.

I've seen it used in that context before, it just still strikes me as odd. When I hear "Dark Ages," I picture the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the scrum of barbarian kingdoms that followed. The mid 11th century is radiant with sources by comparison!

[aphillathehun]

http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=1066

[Ataman]

http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=1066

A lot of those figures look great, the dismounted general especially! Just a shame that so many of the armoured figures have that very distinct Carolingian morion, it's perhaps the one time of Frankish equipment I'd be hesitant to use, because it really does just scream "this is a Frankish army."

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Victrix Saxons with round shields, the odd warrior with mail to represent wealthier nobles; you can add some Arab heads or Berber-looking model, to represent those of the many Christian warriors that joined Muslim forces in al-Andalus. Christian mercenaries were the main force of Abd al-Rhaman I in his wars to secure al-Andalus for his dinasty, in the 750s; tradition that was imitated by his heirs and many Muslim local chieftains. A mix of Arab, Berber and Christian panoplies would give the best results. For Cavalry, I have been looking to Footsore Miniatures Breton cavalry, Arab (temporarily out of stock), Early Saxon and, why not, the odd Caroligian cavalryman. Oh! Footsore's Saxon range also has some useful miniatures for representing Spanish Christians!

You can use them to fight Vikings and Carolingians (as Christian mercenaries) not just Muslims.

[Ataman]

Victrix Saxons with round shields, the odd warrior with mail to represent wealthier nobles; you can add some Arab heads or Berber-looking model, to represent those of the many Christian warriors that joined Muslim forces in al-Andalus. Christian mercenaries were the main force of Abd al-Rhaman I in his wars to secure al-Andalus for his dinasty, in the 750s; tradition that was imitated by his heirs and many Muslim local chieftains. A mix of Arab, Berber and Christian panoplies would give the best results. For Cavalry, I have been looking to Footsore Miniatures Breton cavalry, Arab (temporarily out of stock), Early Saxon and, why not, the odd Caroligian cavalryman. Oh! Footsore's Saxon range also has some useful miniatures for representing Spanish Christians!

You can use them to fight Vikings and Carolingians (as Christian mercenaries) not just Muslims.

Thank you, this is all very helpful!