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Author Topic: Italian Wars- Up and Coming Vignette- Page 20- UPDATED- 05-04-2023  (Read 39740 times)

Offline Atheling

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its the one day wab events I used to run back in the day.

Oddly, there is enough literature on the kings porn stash, pen something for Hobilar on it.  ( on my to do list for the last decade)

Great idea. Certainly different  :)

Oh, given the history of who those women were, Charles VIII probably wanted to keep that one under his hat  lol

Offline Doom Beard 78

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The whole reason for conquering Naples was to use as a staging ground for new crusade. However, the French soon forgot any such ideas.  They were so renowned for their activities that the Italians named Syphilis il mal Gallico, the French disease

Offline Atheling

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The whole reason for conquering Naples was to use as a staging ground for new crusade. However, the French soon forgot any such ideas.  They were so renowned for their activities that the Italians named Syphilis il mal Gallico, the French disease

Indeed. Though I expect that the literature of the time proportioned blame for the spread of Syphilis to each for their specific enemy at the time. It's likely a case that a lot of the literature was destroyed over time, thus we are left with what we have.

Offline Doom Beard 78

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Absolulty- French sources blamed the illness on the Italians.

Offline Atheling

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Absolulty- French sources blamed the illness on the Italians.

About ten/twenty years ago, I forget how long, watching a documentary mouth agape documentary in which they blamed the Native Americans for Syphilis!
 
I'm quite sure that this "theory", if you can call it that, has been largely dismissed.

Offline Paul Richardson

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I thought the view was that a more virulent form of syphilis was endemic in the New World, that it was brought back to south west Europe by the crews of European ships and then spread further north by Charles VIII's army when it retreated north.

Offline Atheling

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I thought the view was that a more virulent form of syphilis was endemic in the New World, that it was brought back to south west Europe by the crews of European ships and then spread further north by Charles VIII's army when it retreated north.

As far I understand it, the very basics, there are two theories. The Pre Columbian and the Post Columbian. I had thought that the former had been largely dismissed but one quick glance at Google and it appears not to be so.

As I say, I cannot really give an informed opinion one way or the other. It's much more fun researching toy soldiers etc  :)

Offline Doom Beard 78

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Agree Darrol.

 There is a Spanish series of books produced in what may be termed the "osprey Style"   called Guerreros y Batallas, they have a book  on " Cerinola 1503" in Spanish and lavishly illustrated , some great colour plates in there.  I think clavier Books had it . 

I have a few in the series but as I don't read Spanish I can't comment on the text.  I guess like Wargames Illustated you just buy it for the pictures

Offline Atheling

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Agree Darrol.

 There is a Spanish series of books produced in what may be termed the "osprey Style"   called Guerreros y Batallas, they have a book  on " Cerinola 1503" in Spanish and lavishly illustrated , some great colour plates in there.  I think clavier Books had it . 

I have a few in the series but as I don't read Spanish I can't comment on the text.  I guess like Wargames Illustated you just buy it for the pictures

I've looked everywhere for that particular book but no one has it in stock George. I'm marked down for when the publisher gets a restock bit that's about it unfortunately.

If it had decent maps and illustrations then Google Translate could be my friend. I'm not so sure about trying to translate a whole text via Google Translate as when I've tried it before I've ended up with half good and half gobbledygook!


Offline Condottiere

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I've looked everywhere for that particular book but no one has it in stock George. I'm marked down for when the publisher gets a restock bit that's about it unfortunately.

If it had decent maps and illustrations then Google Translate could be my friend. I'm not so sure about trying to translate a whole text via Google Translate as when I've tried it before I've ended up with half good and half gobbledygook!
Unless you're fluent in Spanish, it's useless:

1) One map of Fornovo.

2) Most of the illustrations and photos have been seen elsewhere and a few don't look period appropriate.

3) The plates look computer created and not that high quality. Plates 4 and 5 are phase I and II respectively of Cerinola, but it's not worth the price of a copy.

Volume 2, Garellano 1503, has better quality plates, probably computer drawn again, and appropriate pics and drawings, though some are clearly Victorian. My favorite is plate 5 with the guy with a freshly severed arm leading troops and clutching a standard with his left hand!

You'd be better off tracking down the titles on Bicoca 1522 and Pavia 1525 for the plates.

Offline Atheling

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Unless you're fluent in Spanish, it's useless:

1) One map of Fornovo.

2) Most of the illustrations and photos have been seen elsewhere and a few don't look period appropriate.

3) The plates look computer created and not that high quality. Plates 4 and 5 are phase I and II respectively of Cerinola, but it's not worth the price of a copy.

Volume 2, Garellano 1503, has better quality plates, probably computer drawn again, and appropriate pics and drawings, though some are clearly Victorian. My favorite is plate 5 with the guy with a freshly severed arm leading troops and clutching a standard with his left hand!

You'd be better off tracking down the titles on Bicoca 1522 and Pavia 1525 for the plates.

That's a real bummer as fashions certainly changed in Italy in the 19 year between Bicocca and Cerignola and 22 years between Pavia and Cerignola.

Does the Garellano 1503 have many colour plated of the Spanish troops?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 04:12:17 AM by Atheling »

Offline Condottiere

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That's a real bummer as fashions certainly changed in Italy in the 19 year between Bicocca and Cerignola and 22 years between Pavia and Cerignola.

I meant in terms of quality. Both are illustrated by Angel Garcia Pinto and if you could get past his Attack of the Clones  or Rimmerworld style, you're in for a treat.

From Bicoca 1522:



Does the Garellano 1503 have many colour plated of the Spanish troops?
Plates 1, 5 and 7 shows Spanish troops in action, but it's not at the level of detail as the Helion books I, II and possibly the forthcoming III on Pavia. Plates 2, 3 and 4 tracks the movement of the armies on a 3D map and plate 6 is an overhead view of troops crossing a pontoon bridge. There are no illustrations of the French, expect for fleeing men-at-arms on a bridge, but they're in plain white harness, compared to the fancy ones in Pinto's plates.

This is plate 7 and the cover of the book:

 

Offline Atheling

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I meant in terms of quality. Both are illustrated by Angel Garcia Pinto and if you could get past his Attack of the Clones  or Rimmerworld style, you're in for a treat.

From Bicoca 1522:


Plates 1, 5 and 7 shows Spanish troops in action, but it's not at the level of detail as the Helion books I, II and possibly the forthcoming III on Pavia. Plates 2, 3 and 4 tracks the movement of the armies on a 3D map and plate 6 is an overhead view of troops crossing a pontoon bridge. There are no illustrations of the French, expect for fleeing men-at-arms on a bridge, but they're in plain white harness, compared to the fancy ones in Pinto's plates.

This is plate 7 and the cover of the book:



Thanks. I've seen all these images on the internet possibly 50 times so there's really no point in me buying any of the books.

Thanks for the heads up Condottiere  8)

Offline Atheling

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Re: To Fornovo and Back Again! French Mounted Crossbowmen P. 9- 09/06/21
« Reply #133 on: June 09, 2021, 03:04:40 PM »


I think I overdid the speed painting malarkey this time and I am not really very satisfied with the end results. I was trying to see just how fast I could get these mini's painted up; the layered paint being applied after a very rough wash with very rough highlights to follow. All of which I ended up having mix up a medium hue to blend in the awful contrast that resulted.

I also made the school boy error of hurrying the matt varnish after the gloss which has resulted in some spectacular "speckling" on the miniatures, all of which which just rubbed salt into the self inflicted wound! I will not be repeating the superfast speed paint job again! Medium pace it is from now on unless I'm working on something I intend to take my time with. Added to all of that when I took the photographs I was even more horrified to see that i had neglected to cut the flash off some of the plastics!  o_o >:(

Still, they are fine for the table top so will remain in my collection rather then being cast into eBay oblivion.















If you take a look at the pics of the single bases you will see the "speckling" in all of it's ghastliness. So, I repeat my varnishing mantra again, "wait a week between the gloss and the matt coats you silly sod!" All a bit of a terrible shame really as there were some nice conversions and kit bashed models in the unit. I came very close to not bother including the pictures of the single bases, but, in the interests of being transparent (bad pun).........





















Offline Hu Rhu

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Darren I think you are being ultra critical.  I can't even see the speckling and the painting standard is well above average if not edging on superb.  :-* :-*

However if you are really unhappy with the miniatures, I would be very happy to take them off your hands lol lol lol (for a suitable price of course).  ;)

By the way are these converted from the Perry plastic light cavalry?  Great conversions if they are.

 

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