Vampire (or other big nasty monster) mechanics

[chaplain severus]

Folks,

I am not expert in horror, fantasy, weird war gaming.

I have gamed a few scenarios but I always find the problem is the same.

Once the vampire gets mixed up against the protagonists it is nothing more than a dice slugfest until one side drops.  Even if one side can break away the other side can chase them down which just prolongs the inevitable for a turn or two.

One side wins, one side loses.

If you could share any rules or scenario ideas to make this less of a slugfest and more of a scary game of cat and mouse. . .


Thanks,

Matt

[Leapsnbounds]

I'm with you on that Brother

[Skrapwelder]

I think that vampires embody hit and run tactics. They hit hard and fast and if things don't go their way they are able to withdraw from combat almost immediately. If they stand still and take it they can definitely be hurt but on the move they become almost impossible to get a bead on.

[chaplain severus]

I think that vampires embody hit and run tactics. They hit hard and fast and if things don't go their way they are able to withdraw from combat almost immediately. If they stand still and take it they can definitely be hurt but on the move they become almost impossible to get a bead on.

Hit and run sounds good. Maybe the vampire can just disengage and flit away, but when the vampire runs the protagonists consolidate.

I am working with an idea of forcing players to take terror checks to proceed into unknown rooms.  forcing the group to wait for people to come around or forge ahead with less than ideal numbers.

Also tests when fighting the vampire which would send humans running from the melee.

No play test yet, just ideas


Matt

[Cory]

I have found that it is often hard to get the same horror effect in a minis game as in an RPG. Most people equate scary with more bad ass so the games don't have the feel they hope for. The key is emphasize the vampire's (or any other creatures) special abilities and circumstances rather than simply making them more combat effective.

For my homebrew rules vampires can easily take on any one opponent but can succumb to group tactics. Slightly better than most models, but I dont want to make them the Tiger tank of the game.

I usually combine this with darkness rules that allow for the monster player to move encounter tokens that are only revealed when they enter a lit area or attack. When a monster flees into the darkness it is removed from the board and multiple encounter tokens respawn from different terrain pieces, one of which will be the creature.

The final part is a set of event cards the moster player can play on the good guys to entice them into seperating. A few cards offer a flat out make a save or move into the darkness but most are along the lines of options such as  "Child Crying: move 4" into the dark to investigate or lose 1 WILL" or victory conditions "STEAL THE BOOK: Spend 1 turn alone with no other friendly models in Library for 1 bonus Victory Point".

All of this works best when there are multiple good guys competing to slay the beast.

[chaplain severus]

I was planning on tokens for the initial movement.  The idea of the vampire disengaging and replacing tokens would be great too.

I like all your ideas Cory, I'll be stealing them now 

Thanks for sharing.


P.S.  I am planning on using WWII figures to run this game (not really gothic horror I know, but still)

Any ideas on how 20th century weapons should interact with vampires in a miniatures game? no effect? minor wounds?

My initial thought was small arms fire would have a small chance to drive the vampire back or an even smaller chance of inflicting a wound on him (never able to kill him though)

[Skrapwelder]

Something else we use in a couple of different games are distractions. Players can carry a number of distractions, which are accrued from damage or things like fear and morale effects. Each marker counts as a minus to any and all die rolls. They go away when you rest in a secure place for a turn. In a horror game I would put down more a number of dummy monster tokens equal to or greater than the number of distractions a group is carrying.

It is harder to evoke the kind of nervous tension in a horror skirmish game that you would get in an rpg because the players don't necessarily have the same kind of emotional investment in the figures as they would in a character they worked up a personality on.

[Malamute]

The only way I managed to crank up the tension and horror in a Vampire Wars campaign was as follows:

The players were not allowed to see the games table until we started play. That way they could not plan anything and were literally thrown in at the deep end.
They were given their scenario brief in advance. ( we were playing a Dracula campaign and the players were taking the roles of the Vampire Hunters, Van Helsing, Harker etc.They were about to seacrh CarFax Abbey for his boxes of earth. Only the Harker palyer knew what the Count looked like so encounters would not be straight forward.)

Secondly they only had a certain number of turns to search the Abbey before sunset.

The game was played on a dark winters evening, with subdued lighting and very atmospheric music playing.

As for rules that simulate the horror of such things, you are right RPGs are probably better. In the above game as it was part of a campaign, the players were quite attached to their figures, so the tension worked. We use Vampire Wars/Gothic Horror from Westwind.(Much modified though with home grown rules, more in keeping with the nature of the Undead)

[Gluteus Maximus]

Possibly the best way to use Vampires is as umpire-controlled or NPC figures using something like "Mythic" to control their actions.

Possible scenarios could include the more aggressive, ie player(s) banding together and trying to hunt down and "kill" the vampire, or less aggressive with the players going "everyone for themselves" and trying to escape to a place of sanctuary with fighting only as a last resort.

A few years ago, when I still managed to get down to my local club we had a game similar to the second option. It was actually set in the Mexican Old West and didn't involve vampires, but the general principles would work.

Each player had his Character figure and a few henchmen. They were going after a Mad Scientist, who had been reported to have died, if I remember correctly. His lab held some valuable secrets, so each group had to get there ASAP, grab what they could and scarper, whilst avoiding (or fighting) rival groups.

Perhaps inevitably, in hindsight, knowing the twisted mind of our GM Bob, the "secrets" were not something you'd want to take home, being Velociraptors bred from DNA in a suitably Gothic/VSF experiment. The aim was then to escape them and make it back to the boats. The game was played with the groups moving through heavy jungle terrain having to evade random gangs of very fast and very hungry Raptors.

The initial shock of meeting the Raptors made the players feel "on-edge" throughout the game and a lot of hurried decisions were made, almost akin to real panic.

Something similar could be achieved with vampires. Maybe each character/group could be given the task of going to the old crypt to put a stake through the sleeping vampire's heart. The umpire could then inform them that due to an eclipse (or other dodgy reason) night was suddenly upon them and in fact there was more than one vampire in there. The players would then have to flee as fast as they could to the nearby safety of the local chapel, with the vampires given a "wake-up" on a roll of a six or whatever and then pursuing them.

It could also work for Werewolves, or whatever.

We had a similar game where each group was moving through the jungle on some mission I can't recall and their members were getting mysteriously killed, with no apparent cause. That was, until we discovered that there were several "Predators" (the clear resin "INAP" figures) actually concealed in the jungle terrain. A couple of "serious" gamers were actually quite upset by this, but it had me in stitches, even though I met a very nasty and early demise 

[Argonor]

I usually combine this with darkness rules that allow for the monster player to move encounter tokens that are only revealed when they enter a lit area or attack. When a monster flees into the darkness it is removed from the board and multiple encounter tokens respawn from different terrain pieces, one of which will be the creature.

I especially like this one. It can be used a bit like Predator tokens in Future Wars, and 'Blips - now with dummies' from Space Hulk.

I think I shall try to work these into CIC and other horror settings - The monsters start out as unseen, only placed as tokens, and have at least one dummy for each real monster (remember Dog Soldiers, where there's a lot of noise and moving shadows to unsettle the troopers, before the actual attack). Only when succesfully spotted, either automatically in plain sight in a lighted area, or with a test when in direct LOS, is a counter revealed. If a spotted monster disappears from sight, it reverts to token-status, again, and the monster-player may move a number of tokens from it's positon next turn... So the adventurers/hunters better stay close on its tail 

A bit different form your rule, but I think it's how I'd like it...

[Havok]

I've found that "myth" works very well in establishing fear.  By this I mean what the players know isn't always right - Werewolves aren't affected by silver but by gold but the players don't know this until they attack with their silver bullets - to no effect.  They then have to figure out what will affect the critter wood? cold iron? water?   Just be sure the can figure it out and have access to the needed substance.  If the players have a hard time figuring it out, you get the opportunity to do some of the suboptimal things monsters do in the movies, a short soliloqy, toss a character, taunt, etc.

[Cranky]

Not to plug my game too much but...........

In Spinespur we wanted to create a mechanic that could build characters power by doing specific actions instead of always just "Hill the other guy." In this manner we created the "Fear Token System" which designates the generation of Fear Tokens for certain actions taken. The Howl of the Cerebeast for instance will cause a model to make a fear test, if he fails the Cerebeasts player gains a Fear Token. Some models are "Fearmongers" which means their prescience alone is enough to generate Fear in others. The "Breaker ability allows models to move through doors, destroying them in the process. If another model is on the opposite side of the door and witnesses it, the model with Breaker gains a Fear token. The list of uses goes on and on.

Once a model has fear tokens they may use them to do things like spend them to alter dice rolls, or upkeep magic or even cast the magic in the first place. We found this mechanic creates situations where "run in and slugfest" isn't always the smartest option. Models can use Fear tokens to heal themselves as well, so a vampire would choose to use "Scare Tactics" in order to build up a pool of fear so he'll be more deadly/durable in a fight.

Check out the game. www.comfychairgames.com

I have been horror gaming for years on end and Spinespur is my compolation of things I always wanted in a horror game. We recruted National champions from various tournament game systems to make sure the game was balanced. 4 Years later we got to a point where loopholes were very hard to find for even people experienced at exploiting them.

[Argonor]

Just taking a look (again) at Comfy Chair... where are the rules?? I can only find minis... 

EDIT: Aarrgh... found it - well hidden amongst the minis....