Author Topic: LPL3 - The Charts... (Read 12303 times)

Captain Blood · « **on:** July 06, 2009, 09:29:34 AM »

Here, for those that are interested, are the workings-out for LPL3...

The images are necessarily wide so you can read them. Unfortunately, this means you'll get a horizontal scroll bar - unless you are using a huge screen!

The Matches

The Votes

The Points

Enjoy!

Pil · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2009, 09:35:31 AM »

The entry with the most votes I can find is 194 votes for Traveller in this match-up:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=11067.0

Any higher bidders?

Ray Rivers · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:30:36 AM »

Kewl charts!

Glad you did it Capt'n... not me!

Thanks mate, there is a lot of work there.

Mancha · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2009, 04:59:35 PM »

Thanks for posting these.

I decided at the start of the LPL that "most votes" status doesn't really equate with "best entry" status, as the quality of the opposing entry has a great deal to do with the votes one's own entry earns. In fact, it might be said that a round in which two entries are fighting neck and neck, but neither gains a large majority, is the round with a best entry.

Captain Blood · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2009, 05:15:51 PM »

Quote from: Mancha on July 06, 2009, 04:59:35 PM

I decided at the start of the LPL that "most votes" status doesn't really equate with "best entry" status, as the quality of the opposing entry has a great deal to do with the votes one's own entry earns.

Very true - points difference is a very arbitrary and unsatisfactory way of deciding positions in the league, since there is such a very wide standard of painting, and it's totally the luck of the draw as to how close in 'quality' any two entries are in any given match... It would be nice to think that over the course of 10 rounds this evens out, and I suspect for the most part it does. But there are bound to be some lucky / unlucky people who draw an unfair proportion of 'hard' or 'easy' opponents, and this will skew their points difference accordingly...

From the moderator's point of view, I should also point out that collating, transposing, recording and reporting on the whole points difference thing is an extra hour or so of work in each round!

Hammers · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2009, 05:46:43 PM »

Quote from: Captain Blood on July 06, 2009, 05:15:51 PM

From the moderator's point of view, I should also point out that collating, transposing, recording and reporting on the whole points difference thing is an extra hour or so of work in each round!

I don't know if I've said it before so I better chime in with the others: thank you very much for doing this, Richard.

Vanvlak · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2009, 08:19:42 PM »

Incredible! Grand job, Captain. Splendid show

Overlord · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2009, 08:51:48 PM »

Quote from: Captain Blood on July 06, 2009, 05:15:51 PM

Quote from: Mancha on July 06, 2009, 04:59:35 PM
I decided at the start of the LPL that "most votes" status doesn't really equate with "best entry" status, as the quality of the opposing entry has a great deal to do with the votes one's own entry earns.

Very true - points difference is a very arbitrary and unsatisfactory way of deciding positions in the league, since there is such a very wide standard of painting, and it's totally the luck of the draw as to how close in 'quality' any two entries are in any given match... It would be nice to think that over the course of 10 rounds this evens out, and I suspect for the most part it does. But there are bound to be some lucky / unlucky people who draw an unfair proportion of 'hard' or 'easy' opponents, and this will skew their points difference accordingly...

From the moderator's point of view, I should also point out that collating, transposing, recording and reporting on the whole points difference thing is an extra hour or so of work in each round!

How about ignoring votes for/against in future leagues and using total number of miniatures painted as the yardstick?
Afterall, the idea behind the league was to promote productivity. Record keeping is much easier. As it is only a tiebreaker, I wouldn't invisage this as causing a problem as smaller scales seem to suffer in voting anyway.

Hammers · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2009, 09:08:12 PM »

Quote from: Overlord on July 06, 2009, 08:51:48 PM

Quote from: Captain Blood on July 06, 2009, 05:15:51 PM
Quote from: Mancha on July 06, 2009, 04:59:35 PM
I decided at the start of the LPL that "most votes" status doesn't really equate with "best entry" status, as the quality of the opposing entry has a great deal to do with the votes one's own entry earns.

Very true - points difference is a very arbitrary and unsatisfactory way of deciding positions in the league, since there is such a very wide standard of painting, and it's totally the luck of the draw as to how close in 'quality' any two entries are in any given match... It would be nice to think that over the course of 10 rounds this evens out, and I suspect for the most part it does. But there are bound to be some lucky / unlucky people who draw an unfair proportion of 'hard' or 'easy' opponents, and this will skew their points difference accordingly...

From the moderator's point of view, I should also point out that collating, transposing, recording and reporting on the whole points difference thing is an extra hour or so of work in each round!

How about ignoring votes for/against in future leagues and using total number of miniatures painted as the yardstick?
Afterall, the idea behind the league was to promote productivity. Record keeping is much easier. As it is only a tiebreaker, I wouldn't invisage this as causing a problem as smaller scales seem to suffer in voting anyway.

Where would the quality and presentation aspects come in?

Overlord · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:18:55 PM »

Quote from: Hammers on July 06, 2009, 09:08:12 PM

Quote from: Overlord on July 06, 2009, 08:51:48 PM

How about ignoring votes for/against in future leagues and using total number of miniatures painted as the yardstick?
Afterall, the idea behind the league was to promote productivity. Record keeping is much easier. As it is only a tiebreaker, I wouldn't invisage this as causing a problem as smaller scales seem to suffer in voting anyway.

Where would the quality and presentation aspects come in?

I should have been a bit clearer. Votes are still cast under the current system to determine the winner of each particular match-up and score points accordingly for win/draw/lose+newteam bonus+special round bonus.

As a change to the current system, a running total is not kept of votes (as it is currently in order to split participants on equal points scores). Instead, to split those tied on the same points score, use total figures painted in the league so far to determine the order. My suggestion is only for the total votes for/against tally to be discarded, in favour of total miniatures painted.
The change is very minor but removes the major book-keeping task the current system entails

Mancha · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:42:42 PM »

But the number of fresh miniatures painted for the LPL already contributes to scores in that each NEW team earns a bonus of ten-points.

Plynkes · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:44:35 PM »

Ha, no scroll bar! I took Orctrader's impudent (only joking!) advice and invested in a new monitor. It's actually got a smaller screen than my old one, but seems to be able to handle bigger resolutions without blowing a gasket (1680 by 1050, currently).

I can go much wider than this! You're nowhere near touching the sides*. Bring it on!

*Unfortunately I have no idea what I'm looking at in my super widescreen mode. It's just a jumble of numbers and colours that makes my eyes glaze over. Never was much of a one for maths. I prefer colouring in.

Overlord · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2009, 11:05:08 PM »

Quote from: Mancha on July 06, 2009, 10:42:42 PM

But the number of fresh miniatures painted for the LPL already contributes to scores in that each NEW team earns a bonus of ten-points.

True, but it only requires you to paint the minimun (5) and no more.
Realistically, it appears to consume a disproportionate amout of the administrators time ("an extra hour or so of work in each round!") to collate something used only to seperate participants on identical points scores. I was merely suggesting a simpler solution, making no changes to any other aspect of the league.

In the final scores table there are only 4 "draws" covering 8 participants. Is it really worth 10 hours work (spread through the season) to decide the order?
A simpler system would be to toss a coin: zero record keeping

Captain Blood · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2009, 11:16:03 PM »

Quote from: Overlord on July 06, 2009, 11:05:08 PM

Is it really worth 10 hours work (spread through the season) to decide the order?

Overlord, I am with you in principle. Personally I'm not sure it is worth all the time and effort to track votes difference. Perhaps our esteemed Prof will consider the possibilities for alternative strategies when reviewing the rules ahead of season 4...

Quote from: Plynkes on July 06, 2009, 10:44:35 PM

I can go much wider than this! You're nowhere near touching the sides*. Bring it on!

Ah... Reminds me of a girl I once knew...

Quote from: Plynkes on July 06, 2009, 10:44:35 PM

*Unfortunately I have no idea what I'm looking at in my super widescreen mode. It's just a jumble of numbers and colours that makes my eyes glaze over. Never was much of a one for maths. I prefer colouring in.

Me too. I'm an artiste daaahling, not a bean-counter. You see my problem?

Pil · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2009, 06:58:03 AM »

Quote from: Captain Blood on July 06, 2009, 11:16:03 PM

Quote from: Plynkes on July 06, 2009, 10:44:35 PM

I can go much wider than this! You're nowhere near touching the sides*. Bring it on!

Ah... Reminds me of a girl I once knew...

I think the way it stands now the votes difference gives a bit of an indication of the painting prowess of the participant. The top painters also have a high mark. I wouldn't have ended as high as I did without all the bonus points I got for sure, and my votes difference reflects this

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