[commercial] CLASH of Spears coming Nov 13th

[seldon]

Yes...

Vs SAGA... same scale concept, but no battle boards. More of a traditional wargame, where it is about troop types.. but we add a more developed system than for example SAGA on fatigue management.. it much more critical.. and units have to be activated by characters...

Vs Rampant, units have to be activated by characters, and activation tests only come to play when units are fatigue.. if you can keep them fresh they are responsive... again fatigue is more detailed and the game is less abstract in some aspects.. also it is alternate activations ( rampant is more kind of IGOUGO ) and you can react to interrupt the enemy

Vs Dux, lardy games are usually a bit more abstract and Dux concentrates so much in the campaign ( which is great ) that it is harder to convert to other periods or to do pick up games.. CLASH is ideal for that as we have a point system that will be made available for players to develop other lists if they want.

Vs SPQR, well it is more tactical, small units of 6-8 guys moving around rather than concentrating on the large units. And really oriented to skirmish actions so we don't have phalanx rules and such, we have traits that mean that those soldier that would fight on a phalanx like to fight in close order.. but the rules don't encourage larger units like SPQR..

It is meant to be a "platoon level" game for ancients.. 30-40 guys, good variety of unit types.. light and medium troops giving you the action arm of your force and a few heavies to serve as an anchor..

here you can see a short sample:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ManwOPS-ib0

here you can see a small battle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44FUc-P0VJw

hope that helps and you go get a book discounted shipping pledge ends today..

[Atheling]

I'll watch the vids in a wee bit. I've got a lot on so it will be before bed I think.

[Marine0846]

Excited that the KS is live.
Been following this for a number of months.
Have a ton of unpainted figures,
so just ordered the rules.

[seldon]

Much appreciated... hope that you will enjoy the rules and like the book !

thanks for supporting us !!!

Francisco

[Andrew_McGuire]

Only a Tribune as I don't like Romans (scum of the earth)

There's nothing wrong with 'scum of the earth'. Ask Napoleon.

[seldon]

Backed.  My first Kickstarter.  Only a Tribune as I don't like Romans (scum of the earth) and will go metal rather than plastic.  As my painting is slow I will use Vikings and Saxons as stand ins until I get some Greeks done.

I missed this... you won’t really need to use them as stand ins... when the book comes out we will put the playtest lists for dark ages available for all online...

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Backed.  My first Kickstarter.  Only a Tribune as I don't like Romans (scum of the earth) and will go metal rather than plastic.  As my painting is slow I will use Vikings and Saxons as stand ins until I get some Greeks done.

I've tried the game -in playtesting- with my Dark Ages warbands. It works nicely. Word of advice though: a few huscarls is ok, but if you use many then your opponent will run circles around you and then kill you at his leisure! The bastards become fatigued fast! 

[seldon]

Awesome comment... few lines that convey how different CLASH is from other games out there..

Thanks for being part of or worldwide sacred band of playtesters !

Francisco

[seldon]

Just a quick update.. the KS is surprising... we've already reached 47K with 22 days to go... not a minor thing for an ancient rules KS !!

Already over 600 books !!!

Our stretch goals are modest but I believe effective and they are giving some nice perks to the kickstarter backers such as character figures and game token and we are getting closer and closer to unlocking the PDF version which all the book backers would get for free !!

but as of today we are already happy that the rules have such a great prospect ahead.. looking forward to going all over the world to demo CLASH at local clubs and conventions...

Thanks to everyone who is supporting us, we have quite a group of backers coming straight from Lead Adventure... so THANKS !!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/clashofspears/clash-of-spears

[Andrew_McGuire]

I'm a backer, as I've already mentioned, and really looking forward to delivery. I'm considering upgrading my pledge from Tribune to Quaestor, but am somewhat concerned about the contents of the Republican Roman boxed set, which seems to represent a Roman consular army in very reduced form, rather than what one would expect from a skirmishing force.  I realise a 'skirmish' can take many forms, but I do wonder at the inclusion of Hastati and Principes, let alone Triarii. Furthermore, if all troop types are to be present, one would expect an equal number of Hastati and Principes per the legion composition.

Another current thread has raised the question of skirmish games not using the correct balance of forces for the type of engagement nominally being represented, but I had the impression Clash of Spears took the idea more seriously. I'd be grateful for any clarification (though I may well have missed it).

[seldon]

So here is the deal... of course we are a bit limited by what is on the sprues itself but the system is very flexible.

When you build a muster force the number of milites plus rare troops could not exceed the civis in the force..

In the Roman case that means that your triarii plus principes could not exceed your velites and hastati...

The question is what is a skirmish.. if we think exclusively an interaction of light troops, velites and javelin men for example.. then you can certainly represent that with CLASH and it will be fun... But it could also mean an interaction between other types of troops that are caught in the action for other reasons..

A group of triarii could be ambushed when returning to camp, or you could have a mixed force of hastati and velites going on a raid and you attach 6 principes just to provide some backbone..

The proportions in the box are particularly close to the consular army proportions because of the proportions in the victix sprues but the box allows you to build many different combinations of troops in you list..

As an example... I never put both triarii and principes in my roman lists at the same time. They are too heavily armored and they get tired very quickly. I tend to prefer having a good mix of hastati, velites and some samnite allies.. and maybe include one veteran unit that could be a unit of principes, or maybe a few eques...

The lists are very flexible ... you can build legal armies with a lot of alternatives.. the only restriction is that if you use too many of those troops not that common for skirmishes you end up with and Ad-Hoc force and an Ad-Hoc force has less staying power because in the pick up games you assume a low level engagement and it is more critical to extract the valuable troops than the encounter itself..

On the other hand for all kinds of narrative scenarios you can come up with anything needed.. for example... the system would work very well if you wanted to do an engagement exclusively with cavalry... a few groups of eques  ambushed by numidian...

The boxes provide the variety that you cannot get from the big army boxes... if you prefer a more specialized army I'm afraid that there are few options in plastics since most of those are aimed at large battles..

I hope that makes sense, if not I can expand...

However one thing should be clear from looking at the videos.. this does not play like a large battle with reduced number of models.. If you fight with a force with the proportions of the consular army velites/hastati/princeps/triarii you will have a tough time.. your force will be too cumbersome... velites are some of the best troops in the roman force.. they are good skirmishers but they can be very effective in close combat..  The roman has the advantage that the legionnaire was so flexible in his combat style that they tend to get an important edge in battle.. it is an easier army for new players.. just don't bulk up on those heavily armored romans because you'll make your life difficult...

[Andrew_McGuire]

Thanks for the  explanation. Your comments make perfect sense. I'll admit I haven't watched the game play videos, at least not attentively. One small parting shot, however: 'eques' should be equites, just as the light troops are velites rather than the singular veles.

[seldon]

Always switch them around... inevitably I will again... same happens to me with princeps and principes...

my spanish interferes with my lack of latin

but I’m glad I made some sense !

One thing I would mention though is that the rules are independent of the lists and the pcik up games system or even the point system...

So for people with a different interpretation of force composition in skirmishes you can use the rules and come up with your own scenarios and forces and you will find that there is more than enough depth there

[seldon]

so yesterday the guys at On Tabletop ( Beasts of War ) had a great discussion about CLASH. see here

https://youtu.be/5NC8QqTzMgc

One cool thing about On Tabletop is that I think is a good channel to take historical games to fantasy and other wargamers... we really hope to convert a few of those to ancients with CLASH...  Usually they get scared by fanatical historical wargamers ( aka button counters ? ) but we think that CLASH has room for both types of players to coexist!

That video clearly was well received and the inflow of new backers took as over a new stretch goal past 50K !

[commander bernhardt]

Hi, I'm sure this has been asked before but is itpossible to included an option to back only for the PDF rulebook?
I'm kina stretched for funds and €30 + shipping for the book is just to much for me.