*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 01, 2020, 08:18:34 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Recent

Author Topic: To Ur is Human - A review  (Read 3180 times)

Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
To Ur is Human - A review
« on: November 09, 2019, 06:43:43 PM »
I got a copy of To Ur is Human - Tabletop Wargame Rules for conflict in Sumerian Mesopotamia by Graham Evans.  I think its an interesting and easy to learn game.  My main interest is in the Late Bronze Age and the rules seem very adaptable to that.  If it sounds of interest there is a review on my blog.

https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com

« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 11:31:16 PM by OB »

Offline von Lucky

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 8734
  • Melbourne, Australia
    • Donner und Blitzen Wargaming
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2019, 10:47:17 PM »
Can you provide a link to your blog (either updating your profile to show the website link icon or post the link in your post above).
- Karsten

"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Blog: Donner und Blitzen

Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2019, 11:32:31 PM »
My bad, done now.

Offline DivisMal

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1778
  • Ghazkull‘s Favorite Brainboy
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2019, 02:51:35 PM »
Thank you! Brilliant review that really got me hooked. I’ve been looking for something like a Copper Age wargaming system. And I totally agree that Fear probably is a vastly underrated factor in prehistoric warfare.
Therefore you may be right that this is also very suitable for Late Bronze Age.

Offline zippyfusenet

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 357
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2019, 05:05:45 PM »
I’ve been looking for something like a Copper Age wargaming system.

In-ter-est-ing. I'm a fan of stone age/chalcolithic warfare. In the Americas the mainly stone/early copper civilizations fielded big armies, supported by peasant farmers and tax collectors. But those armies seem to me to have been agglomerations of town militia war parties, led by war chiefs and warrior societies, with few if any full-time soldiers and little differentiation of troop types or tactical roles.

Do you see evidence for organized armies in the old world before the bronze age states?
You'll shoot your eye out, kid!

Offline DivisMal

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1778
  • Ghazkull‘s Favorite Brainboy
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 07:18:09 PM »
I’ve been looking for something like a Copper Age wargaming system.

In-ter-est-ing. I'm a fan of stone age/chalcolithic warfare. In the Americas the mainly stone/early copper civilizations fielded big armies, supported by peasant farmers and tax collectors. But those armies seem to me to have been agglomerations of town militia war parties, led by war chiefs and warrior societies, with few if any full-time soldiers and little differentiation of troop types or tactical roles.

Do you see evidence for organized armies in the old world before the bronze age states?

Hi! And uhm....sorry, but that actually something I have been working on for some zime, and even did my PhD about, so it may get a bit detailed now:

One of the big issues of archaeology today is overcoming the paradigm that anything before the Bronze Age is just „household economy“ and militia. I really would disagree and there have been others who made new evidence public: apart from chariot armies in the Near East, you have a start of quite a number  of specialised melee weapons starting, warrior burials and real fortified settlements. Swords with flint blades (or in a ltaer stage: the first copper swords and spearheads) as well as copper battle axes are imho strong arguments for this, but there is more...

To make myself clear: I’m not suggesting regular armies like in the late Bronze Age....but much more than what we expected from the Neolithic!

Offline zippyfusenet

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 357
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2019, 09:25:03 PM »
To make myself clear: I’m not suggesting regular armies like in the late Bronze Age....but much more than what we expected from the Neolithic!

Thanks for that DivisMal. Yes, certainly neolithic/chalcolithic big fortified settlements, warrior graves, advancing weapons tech, chiefdoms, paramount chiefdoms, proto-states. I had the impression that the Yamnaya Indo-European speakers brought advanced metal weapons tech into western Europe along with horses and chariots c. 2500 BC. I wasn't aware of any evidence for chariots in the ANE before bronze age Sumeria.

In any case, I'll watch for your future posts on the subject. Take care.

Offline von Lucky

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 8734
  • Melbourne, Australia
    • Donner und Blitzen Wargaming
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2019, 09:57:29 AM »
Thanks OB - good review and looking forward to the follow up post.

Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2019, 12:52:51 PM »
Thanks von Lucky.  The second part should be up next week.  It's written but I want to include some pics and my pc is having windows 10 update problems.

Offline Trebian

  • Student
  • Posts: 12
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2019, 09:18:21 AM »
Took me a while to get signed up, - there are so many of these forums, keeping up to date with them all is a bit tricky.

Any how, thanks to OB for the review and starting the thread. I'm the author of the rules, and currently reeling at the fact that more than two people have bought them. Excited at the prospect of reading someone else's AAR.

The rules were written specifically for Sumerian warfare, so they carry no warranty if you use them for any other period. However I have made a few suggestions should you want to wander "off piste" so to speak, over on my blog: https://wargaming4grownups.blogspot.com/2019/11/to-ur-elsewhere.html. There's loads of stuff in the back posts about the rules development and a few battle reports.

The Fear Test mechanism is about imposing yourself psychologically on your opponent, so I would guess it would work for pre-Bronze Age warfare, as long as you know what troop types you want and how they interact. The rule system is pretty open so it shouldn't be difficult to work out the numbers you need for the combat system.

Trebian

Offline SteveBurt

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 799
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2019, 06:22:23 PM »
I'd imagine the Fear Test mechanism would work well for later Bronze Age warfare, too. Even small numbers of chariots seem to have had a disproportionate effect.

Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2019, 07:47:55 PM »
Yes, some of the translations we have seem to have quite small groups of chariots sent to see off quit large groups of pedestrian raiders.

Offline Trebian

  • Student
  • Posts: 12
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2019, 10:07:58 AM »
Although the rules were written specifically for Sumerian warfare, the Fear Test should have general applicability to other periods where intimidation is a key component in the way of war. I have a version of it in my Jacobite Rebellion rules, which may eventually get published. They're about third or fourth on my list of rules to be made more public.

Offline SteveBurt

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 799
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2019, 10:45:38 AM »
Yes, some of the translations we have seem to have quite small groups of chariots sent to see off quit large groups of pedestrian raiders.

I think it's the Byblos letters where they are requesting the Egyptians to send about 6 chariots. Definitely the gunboats of their day!

Offline OB

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 401
Re: To Ur is Human - A review
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2019, 12:32:18 PM »
That's my impression too.  Of course they were very expensive but they seem to have been worth it