*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 29, 2024, 01:11:48 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1686658
  • Total Topics: 118118
  • Online Today: 815
  • Online Ever: 2235
  • (October 29, 2023, 12:32:45 AM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Question painting 28mm lionheart  (Read 1596 times)

Offline GeKi

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 224
    • miniaturebrushwork
Question painting 28mm lionheart
« on: December 07, 2019, 11:07:41 AM »
So a friend gave me this mini together with some other
As a comission to paint them.
As I search for some reference images a stumble
Across 2 problems.

A) the shield of richad always shows 3 horizontal lions
(Forgive me for not knowing what the correct term is) but this shield shows two vertical ones. Is that wrong?

B) the horse wears a shurecoat and I have no Idea how to paint it.
Red with 3 lions on each leg part of it?

Thanks for any advice

Offline westwaller

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 770
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2019, 11:28:10 AM »
I think the lions rampant facing each other is thought to be the more probable one.

Offline GeKi

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 224
    • miniaturebrushwork
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2019, 11:36:38 AM »
Ok then I use the shield as it is.
For the horse dress which of the both whould made sense?
3 or 2 lions.

Thanks


I never saw any pictures displaying him with 2 lions but Im not
That into this period

Offline westwaller

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 770
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2019, 11:58:34 AM »
I'm not an expert, but there was a discussion on here a while ago on the subject and iirc, that was the consensus. I'm guessing that the horse cover would have the same as the shield device. Looking on the internet, there seems to be two seals of Richard 1. One shows the lions rampant facing while there seems to be another, where the crested helmet that features on your miniature is depicted along with the three lions passant on his shield. So it is a bit confusing.

Offline GeKi

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 224
    • miniaturebrushwork
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2019, 12:46:58 PM »
Yes that were my thoughts aswell.
Maybe I go with the two lions as this will involve
Less converting and freehand.

Offline bluewillow

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2280
  • Bluewillow- Matthew Williamson
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2019, 02:03:22 PM »
Richard had three that I am aware of

1. As Count of Anjou-Maine on the red feild two gold lion rampant facing each other, the main shield he is portrayed with.

Richards 1195 great seal also has this image, along with coins issued.



2. A argent feild with a single red lion rampant facing left (dexter) as duke of Aquitaine, the earliest known seal of Richard.


3. The two gold lions passant over each other on a red feild, duc of Normandy seal



The three lions as we know them is only to be found on one seal in 1198, and on Westminster abbey, although that section was not built until 1250, during Henry's reign. it is thought that this is actually King Johns seal not Richards.
King John also seemed to of used two lions passant when his first seal was made when he was ten years old




King Johns seal when King

Heraldry is still in its infancy at this time, so whatever you choose will be fine.

I have two richards one has the ducal shield of Normandy, the other the count of Maine and Anjou as this is where he spent most of his life in Chinon before heading off on crusade.

My two cents
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 03:49:31 PM by bluewillow »

Offline GeKi

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 224
    • miniaturebrushwork
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2019, 02:15:09 PM »
Many thanks for the clarification

Offline Patrice

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1769
  • Breizh / Brittany
    • "Argad!"
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2019, 03:09:48 PM »
Usually, the horse dress the same as the shield (on each leg) (whatever the choice) it makes sense as the main purpose of heraldry is for recognition.

The device would be reversed on the right side of the horse so that it would not face backwards
(as is still done in some modern armies, US for example when a small flag is sewn on right shoulder of uniform).

Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11906
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2019, 06:24:24 PM »

Heraldry is still in its infancy at this time, so whatever you choose will be fine.

Absolutely. I agree.

I would like to say that in researching another battle a very kind chap sent me pics of the heraldry at Las Navas de Tolosa (1212) and I was really surprised at how formalised it had become in the twenty three years since Richard's death! It's left me a little confused at what sort of date heraldry became more foramlised.


Offline Harry Faversham

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3989
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2019, 05:15:52 AM »
I've been wondering if there's a basic 'idiot's guide' to painting three lions freehand? Reason I ask is, in a recent copy of Wargames Illustrated, there was an article on painting their mounted French Knight figure. It showed a good step by step way of depicting the fleur-de-lis thingy on the horse's barding?

???
"Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

"I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11906
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2019, 08:41:55 AM »
I've been wondering if there's a basic 'idiot's guide' to painting three lions freehand? Reason I ask is, in a recent copy of Wargames Illustrated, there was an article on painting their mounted French Knight figure. It showed a good step by step way of depicting the fleur-de-lis thingy on the horse's barding?

???

Start with quite watered down paint quite a few grades darker then you want the final colour to be. Sketch in the basic shape of the heraldic device. Thicken the paint as you add the layers until you reach something you're satisfied with. It's important to be more accurate in where you land the brushstrokes as you go along.

Hope that makes sense? My Sunday morning coffee is just taking effect :)

Offline GeKi

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 224
    • miniaturebrushwork
Re: Question painting 28mm lionheart
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2019, 09:09:28 AM »
Quote
Start with quite watered down paint quite a few grades darker then you want the final colour to be. Sketch in the basic shape of the heraldic device. Thicken the paint as you add the layers until you reach something you're satisfied with. It's important to be more accurate in where you land the brushstrokes as you go along.

Thats pretty much it. If you never did freehands before its a bit
Learning by dying but I like such stuff.
If everything fails you still can ask miscmini if they can do you
28mm transfers for the desired heraldic.