11th Century Welsh Warriors?

[Atheling]

What to Use as 11th Century Welsh Warriors?

Has anyone got any ideas for which manufacturer/s I can legitimately use as 11th Century Welsh Warriors in 28mm?

They're for the Battle of Shrewsbury 1069 game and to be honest, through lack of evidence I'm at a bit of a loss.
There's Gripping Beast's lovely Welsh range but they are way too early.

Any ideas please?

[Atheling]

I've come to the decision that as Eadric's Welsh allies, his former enemies, all came from roughly the same Geographical areas of England and Wales to go for Saxon looking mini's with a bit of a Celtic flourish by adding some dark plaids.

And the odd huge Celtic style banner.

Problem solved methinks

[Jacksarge]

Sounds like a good choice. Good book that covers the topic : https://www.bookdepository.com/War-Society-Medieval-Wales-633-1283-Sean-Davies/9781783161393?ref=grid-view&qid=1583223473768&sr=1-1

[Atheling]

Sounds like a good choice. Good book that covers the topic : https://www.bookdepository.com/War-Society-Medieval-Wales-633-1283-Sean-Davies/9781783161393?ref=grid-view&qid=1583223473768&sr=1-1

Jack, you might just have saved the day! I recently bought Medieval Armies 1047-1295 Vol 1, Paul Martin Remfry but it mentions very little about the early period alluded to in the title.

It's a well researched book and packed with info so it will be useful at some point, that much is certain. just not for the project I bought it for. Wasn't cheap either- £40! 

[westwaller]

I'm not entirely convinced that there would be much of a different look to medieval Welsh compared to medieval English of the time to be honest. The Norman invasion of Ireland mentions Welsh bowmen so you might want to have a few more bowmen than crossbow men for flavour and if you wanted a different look, you might want to consider the various ranges of specific bidowers (crusader and antidiluvian off the top of my head. I guess you also might want more spearmen possibly javelin throwers. Maybe they mostly carry round shields with the odd more Celtic pattern on them? Less mounted troops or maybe consider footsores Bretons for use as the Welsh Calvary because of their past connections?
Nothing evidence based really just my suppositions 🙂

[janner]

I take it by Celtic, you mean British 

[Atheling]

I'm not entirely convinced that there would be much of a different look to medieval Welsh compared to medieval English of the time to be honest

After looking into it for a day or so relating the what we know about Eadric and his allies, who were until relatively recently his enemies, Bleddyn and Rhiwallon combined with their very close geographical proximity it is certainly the logical conclusion.

I mentioned in my above post, I've decided to use Saxons with Welsh banners- with a few name tags added for clarity and a decent handout that should be enough to explain what's going on

Less mounted troops or maybe consider footsores Bretons for use as the Welsh Calvary because of their past connections?
Nothing evidence based really just my suppositions 🙂

They will be mostly on foot though I might be tempted to chuck in a few mounted models, as vignettes and possibly scouts.

[Atheling]

I take it by Celtic, you mean British 

Agreed. A very misleading word.

[westwaller]

Yes but maybe there were Irish connections as both the Welsh and Irish practiced a British form of Christianity which differed from that of the Latin form.

[has.been]

Irish monks, & therefore maybe Welsh too, had their tonsure
as a strip from one ear to the other. Not as we now think of
a tonsure, i.e. a circle at the back of the head.

[janner]

Irish monks, & therefore maybe Welsh too, had their tonsure
as a strip from one ear to the other. Not as we now think of
a tonsure, i.e. a circle at the back of the head.

Whilst there are sources that indicate Insular Christian monks had a different shape of tonsure, the exact form remains a matter of debate.

[Diablo Jon]

MY WRG Armies of Feudal Europe shows a North welsh archer reportedly from an image circa 1295 who looks pretty much the spitting image of the Gripping Beast Dark Age Welsh



Admittedly you have to take WRG stuff with a pinch of salt as many of their books, useful as they are, where written in the early 80s and new research has come to light or their interpretation of the evidence was just plain wrong (Punic pike anyone?).

[Atheling]

Hmmmmm..... where have I seen those before?

  They're the miniatures i painted up for Gripping Beast years ago 

[Diablo Jon]

Ha well they where the first GB Welsh Archers to come up in Google images.

I was searching for images to help with my British Central Africa project the other day only for goggle images to show me pictures of my own minis ...really helpful 

[Atheling]

Ha well they where the first GB Welsh Archers to come up in Google images.

I was searching for images to help with my British Central Africa project the other day only for goggle images to show me pictures of my own minis ...really helpful 

  You need to be more zen with your google foo