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Author Topic: Tolkien Orc Kitbash p.24 - Second batch of Uruk-Hai, and more trolls painted.  (Read 54480 times)

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2020, 06:24:43 PM »
Tolkeins descriptions of -wide mouths, fangs and long arms “ape” propaganda shots of the period

Excellent point - and Ugluk and Grishnakh trade insults by calling each other apes!

Offline Hammers

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2020, 07:09:30 PM »





Those are a bit ruddy good, Richard, and I like your reasoning. I am about to paint my GW LotR Weta Workshop orcs and they are a bit all over the place, aren't they? Games Workshop have made a few interpretations themselves which are slightly better (like black uruks of Mordor) but I feel they mist central aspects of what an orc is. They are at the core perversion and mockeries ot all that is good, creative, inspired...

I think this bit from "The Hobbit" is a good starting point when you give them shape:

Quote
Now goblins are cruel, wicked, and badhearted. They make no beautiful things, but they make many clever ones. They can tunnel and mine as well as any but the most skilled dwarves, when they take the trouble, though they are usually untidy and dirty. Hammers, axes, swords, daggers, pickaxes, tongs, and also instruments of torture, they make very well, or get other people to make to their design, prisoners and slaves that have to work till they die for want of air and light. It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them, and also not working with their own hands more than they could help; but in those days and those wild parts they had not advanced (as it is called) so far. They did not hate dwarves especially, no more than they hated everybody and everything, and particularly the orderly and prosperous; in some parts wicked dwarves had even made alliances with them.

From that one can infer that orcs are armed with simple, ugly but effective mass-produced weapons and armour, preferably made by slaves or plundered.

Offline Hammers

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2020, 07:11:28 PM »
Great work. I did something similar last year, but yours look far better executed than mine, where GS hides many sins! I look forward to seeing your finished orcs.

Wow. Those pole arms look just right.

Offline nicknorthstar

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2020, 07:28:36 PM »
These look great.

Reminds me of what our Kev Dallimore said not long back, having a selection of Frostgrave and Oathmark kits allows you to be the closest to being a figure designer as you can get without learning to sculpt.

The horned helmets were not really LotR movie inspired, it was more Tim Kirk

Orc skin colour is an ancient debate of course. IMHO, when Tolkien says Black Skinned I think he means it. But I don't mean human black skin. Humans are really only shades of brown, (I appreciate a small number of Africans are so dark as to look close to black), I think JRRT's black skinned orcs are charcoal black. So it's black from a grey base, I think orcs should be various shades of grey, from light to black. Then to add confusion, when he describes some as sallow, that describes a yellowy skin.

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2020, 08:04:15 PM »
Orc skin colour is an ancient debate of course. IMHO, when Tolkien says Black Skinned I think he means it. But I don't mean human black skin.

I'd entirely agree with that - but I think it's worth pointing out that he only ever describes one orc as 'black-skinned' - and in a way that seems to contrast it with the other orcs around (the big uruks). And there are two things that suggest (very strongly, I think) that most are 'sallow'. First, the half-orcs (who are 'Men' rather than 'Orcs') are recognised as partially Orcish because of their sallow skin. Second, in one of his letters, Tolkien says that orcs in general are 'sallow'.

I reckon sallow from a grey base (or, for those like the small tracker, black from a grey base) is about as good a guess as any - with the greyness helping to imply an underground habitat and to underscore the unhealthy-looking connotations of 'sallow'.

Can't wait to see how the Captain's turn out!

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2020, 08:29:18 PM »
Thanks Nick, and all. Yes, the kitbashing potential expands exponentially with every new plastic kit release. I've pretty much lost track now, they're coming so thick and fast. But I've certainly used parts from the Frostgrave soldiers, cultists and barbarians in these orcs. Although, as I say, they're mainly based off your Oathmark goblins.

Great work. I did something similar last year, but yours look far better executed than mine, where GS hides many sins! I look forward to seeing your finished orcs.

Thanks Alan. Yes, I remember those very well. Excellent job, and I am following in your tracks.

Oi!
Riccardo!
You bin stealin' ma dreams again?

Never far away Pablo ;) lol

Although, I must admit that the GW Mordor Orcs were closer to my vision of a Tolkein Orc than the Uruk Hai ever were.

I agree. The Mordor orcs were the best of the Jackson / Weta / GW orc incarnations.

Interesting that you have shared photos of the minis primed - rather than in an earlier stage where the GS additions can be seen - and perhaps a little easier to see how you have adjusted parts.

Thanks Fred. They just look better with a unifying coat of primer rather than several different shades of grey plastic, slathered with poly cement ;)
The only Green Stuff I used was to add hair on a few of them, plus a couple of fur capes and the banner. And a tiny bit of filling here and there.


Offline Severian

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2020, 07:22:47 AM »
Very well done, these. Will be watching with great interest.

The skin tone thing really is a limitless debate, isn't it. My suspicion is that descriptions like "black orcs" are impressionistic rather than strictly descriptive - the general resonance of black-hearted &c rather than necessarily a colouration thing. But Tolkien's descriptions are unfocussed enough to admit a good deal of painterly licence, I think. Worth noting that the only definitely black-skinned troops are the Southron contingent "out of Far Harad" in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. But they might arguably be distinctive only amongst the men, though again they are said to be "like half-trolls" rather than orcs.

Offline Dr. The Viking

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2020, 08:17:57 AM »
If there's anyone who could do this, my money would be on you.  lol

I have quite a few of the (film version) Perry GW orcs. Some (the uruks) are quite too distinct for my liking, but the 'normal' Orcs are quite on par with the Oathmark offerings, in my opinion. I am not going to spam your thread with images of what I mean.

I joined a facebook group for wargaming in middle earth (explicitly not using the film vision) a few weeks ago, so I guess we are aligned for once. :D

Anyways, back padding and encouragement from Denmark, now slab on the paint already.  ;D
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Offline Hammers

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2020, 09:17:32 AM »

I joined a facebook group for wargaming in middle earth (explicitly not using the film vision) a few weeks ago, so I guess we are aligned for once. :D


Good group. Both GW's MESBG and independent Middle-Earth gaming have of a bit of a renaissance at the moment. I really like GWS  Battle Companies even though they end up in some seriously unthematic scenarios now and then. (Hobbits vs. Easterlings, Rangers of the North and Mordor Uruks against Galadhrim and Gondorians... Those are not even to consider what-id scenarios).
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 09:19:46 AM by Hammers »

Offline Bugsda

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2020, 09:19:42 AM »

The specific descriptive terms that have stuck in my mind (used several times IIRC), are 'swart' and 'sallow'. Which suggests a darkish complexion - but with an unhealthy pallor!
So I'll probably go for a more browny-yellowy hue than my customary 'sunny skin tone'.


Works for me   8)
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Offline trev

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2020, 09:29:37 AM »
Salut Captain.  Lovely work.

I like old school Orc/Goblin threads and recent kitbashing of Tolkien style orcs appearing here.  My skills are not in this league but I've been collecting sprues to have a go.  There are quite a few kit bashed conversions on the Wargaming Middle Earth FB group.  Jake Hallam has done some nice McBride inspired ones.  Alan's up thread are rather good too.

There seems to be a small renaissance in the idea of creating Tolkien races, and particularly Orcs, from the books.  Probably a natural reaction as the films recede into history but I think credit is due to Nick for getting the Oathmark sets out.   Perhaps also a hat tip to Hobgoblin for his Orcs and the "gamefication" of Middle Earth thread a few years back, which I suspect to have acted as something of a catylst.

Love the Conan inspired helmet.  With a touch of inspiration from the Ralph Bakshi Film perhaps?  Great stuff all.  :)

Offline gamer Mac

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2020, 10:27:50 AM »
Never noticed this thread before Richard?
Not your usual flouncy shirts and feathered hats
Looking forward to seeing the paint jobs

Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2020, 11:21:54 AM »
Thanks all  :)

Number 1 is painted. I shall do these lads one at a time I think, and take my time with them...
I had to start with this one - the 1976 Minifigs ME range uruk tribute act  ;)










Offline Mason

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash (#1 painted p.4)
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2020, 11:26:28 AM »
Ooooh!
He is a bit good.
 :-* :-*

Plenty of dimension to him too.
One of the advantages of plastic kitbashing; not being constrained by the necessity of lifting out of a mould.
 :) 8)


Offline OSHIROmodels

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Re: Captain Blood's Tolkien Orc Kitbash (#1 painted p.4)
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2020, 11:43:38 AM »
Nice. I like the shield in particular  8)
cheers

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