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Author Topic: Thoughts on stowage...  (Read 1331 times)

Online gamer Mac

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2020, 09:23:57 AM »
The Canadians in particular had a habit of festooning their carriers with extra firepower. Not universal, but commonly seen. That could include guns scavenged from aircraft wrecks. The Canadian carriers are easily identified by the CT prefix to their numbers. (C for Canadian).

There are (for the British at least) official vehicle stowage plans, to show what should go where. In the field of course there were all sorts of variations. https://vickersmg.blog/in-use/transport/the-universal-carrier/ these are with reference to the MG carrier but also include 'standard' UCs.
Very interesting link, thanks

Offline Etranger

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2020, 10:17:14 AM »
Some more photos of Canadian bren carriers.




This T16 carrier (2 pairs of bogie wheels, not 1 bogie and 1 single wheel as on the UC) is loaded for Bear!  0.50, 2" mortar and a Bren...

From Mapleleafup " T-16 CT96270 of the Canadian Lake Superior Regiment (4th Armoured Brigade, 4th Canadian Armoured Division) at a vehicle park in Holland just after the war. Note the improvised armaments, including the M2HB ground-mount .50 calibre machine gun complete with M3 aircraft barrel, 2" mortar on the smoke discharger mount, Bren mounting, and whatever it is the man in the back is posing behind. One can only assume that this carrier was used for more than just hauling supplies from one place to another, a testament perhaps to its durability." http://www.mapleleafup.nl/t16carrier/t16pic06.html
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 10:19:54 AM by Etranger »
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Offline Harry Faversham

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2020, 11:20:24 AM »
Wasn't the 'PIAT Carrier' a Canadian invention too?



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Offline Etranger

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2020, 11:37:03 PM »
I think so. That would make for a nasty bang at the receiving end.

Offline Harry Faversham

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2020, 06:27:57 AM »
From what I've been reading the Canadians were big fans of the 'umble PIAT? I'm reading 'A Rising of Courage' about Canadian Paratroopers on D-Day at the moment
They made very aggressive use of their PIAT bomb launchers around Le Mesnil crossroads, actively hunting any German armour trying to stick it's snout into the area.

:)

Online Ultravanillasmurf

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2020, 05:52:33 PM »
That is a bit like a mini Hedgehog. I know the recoil spring would absorb some of the recoil, but it would probably be a bit exciting.

Offline wmyers

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2020, 03:53:29 AM »
This T16 carrier (2 pairs of bogie wheels, not 1 bogie and 1 single wheel as on the UC) is loaded for Bear!  0.50, 2" mortar and a Bren...

From Mapleleafup " T-16 CT96270 of the Canadian Lake Superior Regiment (4th Armoured Brigade, 4th Canadian Armoured Division) at a vehicle park in Holland just after the war. Note the improvised armaments, including the M2HB ground-mount .50 calibre machine gun complete with M3 aircraft barrel, 2" mortar on the smoke discharger mount, Bren mounting, and whatever it is the man in the back is posing behind. One can only assume that this carrier was used for more than just hauling supplies from one place to another, a testament perhaps to its durability." http://www.mapleleafup.nl/t16carrier/t16pic06.html

That’s supposed to be the Lake Superior SCOTTISH Regiment.

http://army-armee.forces.gc.ca/en/lake-superior-scottish-regiment/index.page

I trained with some during my time in HM Forces. Good lads!

Offline Redmist1122

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2020, 06:36:12 PM »
Just about all my vehicles have stowage.  I like the lived-in look..plus it go's well with the weathering I add too.  It comes down to what you want to your vehicles to represent.  Good luck!
Greg P.
Tucson, AZ, USA

Offline Elbows

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2020, 06:43:18 PM »
I think the general thing to remember about any AFV is that....95% of its life time is spent serving as a fuel-guzzling truck, and 5% is spent actively fighting.  It's just a big armored sleeping bag you roll around in till someone starts shooting at you.

Your luggage is the last thing on your mind when an AT round is headed your way. :D



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Online tin shed gamer

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2020, 08:28:58 PM »
The short answer is .. Artistic license . Simply if your happy that it's an interpretation that emotes your artistic view and you don't pass it off as authenticThen Bob's your uncle.
But if you want to be authentic then you need to read up on the manuals and drills.To get your head around the idea.Or at the very least have copied one from a period photograph.

This AOP I've popped on here recently is kitted slightly differently from the photograph. It's the same kit just repositioned as its not a standard AOP. It's not 'Wrong' just a varriant you won't find with rooting through foot notes in manuals.
It was chosen to complement the subject figures as its as odd ball as their back story.
It's got a little artistic license in the form of the third seat being filled with a generator and a Gerry can.Simply because there's no fourth crew man for the set.(Although there's stil room for him.) It's a legitimate stowage item just not normally on an AOP.  It's just an additional device of detailing to establish this crew as being Atypical .(The aerial case's aren't left off they're just prepped for casting ;)  )

Offline BeneathALeadMountain

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2020, 10:01:03 PM »
I love the look of stowage on models as it brings them to life and as Redmist and Elbows say it gives it the lived in look but as Tin Shed Gamer says what it is attached to is vitally important as I have seen gamers cover things like exhausts or vision slits (although for the Italians in 42-43 the driver not being able to see is fine apparently as long as the commander is always unbuttoned  - see first pic, hopefully).

I did discover a Czech company called Black dog ( https://blackdog-model.com/en-kategorie_689613-0-72.html This should be their 1:72 range but there is more in the 1:35 and 1:48 ranges). Whilst I game in 15mm predominantly and so their products are too big for my uses I was impressed by their range ( almost glad they are the wrong scale or I would have spent a fortune on them :) ).

Admittedly I’m assuming their designs are correct or done from pictures (is that the same thing?) but I immediately went to their catalogue and copied loads of their product pictures into my gallery. This way I can look at their version and check it against any photos I find and work from there. As you can see from the attached carrier pic they’ve put quite a bit on the front (looks just like sandbags) and loads of useful stuff on the back.

My biggest problem now is that building plastic kits is fast but festooning each with hand sculpted stowage has meant my motor pool is rather backed up.

BALM
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 10:17:23 PM by BeneathALeadMountain »

Online tin shed gamer

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2020, 10:56:02 PM »
There's simply nothing wrong with using stowage to represent your interpretation of an in theatre vehicle.

You just simply get a better model by knowing where any possible attachments point's would be, and why it's not stowed in certain ways.

The photo of the model stowage set . Is an example of not knowing where such point's are .Or simply an attempt to show all the parts in the kit (technically the wheels could and did go onthe sided.)Pretty much every carrier has no attatching points on their side's. The big square patches you see on the side's of some carriers are the female part of the wading panel bolts on carrier's that were fitted for amphibious landing. Such as Dday.
The picture all be it a dramatic over simplification show's why kit isn't hung over the top edges of carriers .Its just bloody lethal.
The second picture is an example of a bad load as you can see that pattern 38 is inches away from fouling.
You simply dont hang your personal kit in the way of dirt and mud .
The third pic show's the real context of loading like this. It's purely theatrical. It's just displaying kit for a show audience.

There's a simple reason you don't see it in 99% of period photographs . Because it's dangerous for the crew and hazardous to the kit.
That 1% you'll find will have a missing context.
You'll often see kit on APC's post carrier's and right upto now .But you need the context that this kit is not stowed in such away that it doesn't effect egress.
That said I've seen rucksacks rations and sleeping bags and more littering the desert .After a column had past. (On one occasion a blow up sheep.)
As I said before it's your toy then you can interpret storage in away you find visually pleasing. I personally feel you get the best artistic outcome if you use the physical reality of object as a guiding principle.
I'm sort of shooting myself in the foot. But I agree even misplaced stowage can look pretty and convey just the type of look that Elbows mentioned. But that look is somewhat ruined when kit is defying gravity .
It's not intended as a rant or any variation there of . Its one of the few grumbles that still kicks at the dormant khaki in me. ;D


« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 12:57:45 AM by tin shed gamer »

Offline SABOT

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2020, 09:59:47 AM »
After thirty years on main battle tanks pretty much seen it all.  With preparation time I’ve seen stowage diagrams adhered too to make the QM Tech and RSM go squiggly but on a bug out at no notice to move I have also seen chaos.

I have also taken advantage of the chaos and off loaded a Ruperts  ‘pallise  and extra comfy kit’ the selfish bastard threw into the basket - over the side on a night march. So Tin Shed probably passed some of that too! 😬😬😬

Offline Mad Lord Snapcase

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2020, 10:13:42 AM »
Quote
I have also taken advantage of the chaos and off loaded a Ruperts  ‘pallise  and extra comfy kit’ the selfish bastard threw into the basket - over the side on a night march.

Good man!    lol    lol    lol

Q: What's the most dangerous combination known to man?

A: A 'Rupert' with a map!


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Offline SABOT

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Re: Thoughts on stowage...
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2020, 10:24:26 AM »
Deffo 100 % 👍👍🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

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