10mm ACW rulesets

[ntdars]

Hello folks! New to the board here in search of an ACW ruleset. Specifically, my group will be using 10mm miniatures as we love the scale and it's not so small like 6mm.


We would prefer a ruleset with point values or at least smaller engagements since it makes pick up games that much easier. I fully understand why some people would shun point values in the ACW setting, but most people don't have 8 hours on a Sunday to play through the whole battle of Gettysburg.

We were looking at Altar of Freedom as an option, but sadly they don't have point values and the scenarios are limited. Fire & Fury looks decent as well, but the barrier to entry for some of their scenarios are absolutely insane, and the rules seem more on the "sim" side (which isn't a bad thing), but we're definitely looking for something more fast play.

Last, maybe the Black Powder rules with the ACW supplement would be worth looking at? Only problem is that we wanted something that represented the era well, and not Warhammer 40k ACW edition.

Would love hear thoughts, thanks!

[fred]

Welcome, good choice on 10mm!

Altar of Freedom is a very interesting game, and certainly lets you play big battles in a fairly small space. Its a while since I looked at it, but I thought it had a good number of scenarios with it. And regarding points values, how important is this, when you have relatively few troop types?

Black Powder isn't to everyone's taste, but I certainly wouldn't describe it as 40k ACW (that label could well be give to the Warhammer Historical stable, but not to BP and Hail Caesar, that have much more in common with Warmaster, than Warhammer).

[ntdars]

Welcome, good choice on 10mm!

Altar of Freedom is a very interesting game, and certainly lets you play big battles in a fairly small space. Its a while since I looked at it, but I thought it had a good number of scenarios with it. And regarding points values, how important is this, when you have relatively few troop types?

Black Powder isn't to everyone's taste, but I certainly wouldn't describe it as 40k ACW (that label could well be give to the Warhammer Historical stable, but not to BP and Hail Caesar, that have much more in common with Warmaster, than Warhammer).

Thanks for the reply!

AoF only has 4 starter scenarios in the book, I guess more can be found online somewhere as the guy has his own website; https://www.6mmacw.com/rules.html

Good to know about Black Powder. I'm coming from a Bolt Action background so I was expecting to play a lot like Games Workshops older systems. Black Powder is based on the old Warmaster system correct?

Maybe we'll bite the bullet and go in on Altar of Freedom since the rules themselves are under 30 pages, which is very welcome after reading the massive books of Fire & Fury, Across a Bloody Field, Longstreet and so on.

[fred]

Yep, BP is based (somewhat) on Warmaster, its nothing like Bolt Action. Units are units, there is no figure removal, most units only have 3 hits.

Movement is by command roll, the more you pass the test by determines if you get 1, 2 or 3 moves (this is the bit we didn't like for ACW, troops zoom across the table).

[robh]

Movement is by command roll, the more you pass the test by determines if you get 1, 2 or 3 moves (this is the bit we didn't like for ACW, troops zoom across the table).

Agree absolutely, the mechanism is OK in a Fantasy setting but it ruins any semblance of historical accuracy when used outside that.  Cold War Commander uses the same mechanism 

There are many (hundreds probably) of ACW rules available depending on how big a battle you want to create, whether the difference between one kind of rifle musket over another is important or whether you follow the theory that the South had the better elan.
Like Napoleonics it really is an era where the style of game you want to play determines the rules you use.
Personally for a "Black Powder" style game I would start with Johnny Reb which has an excellent feel for the period, enough detail to reflect the different stages of the war and different east/west campaigns and relatively straightforward mechanics.

[FierceKitty]

Wise choice with 10mm!

[FifteensAway]

Rank and File rules from Crusader publishing and add in their ACW supplement (which gives you the points system if I recall correct - or maybe it was another supplement).  Fast, fun rules that easy to learn and play a quick game. 

Keep to a couple of brigades per side and you get a very quick game, use the d6 morale in the rules, too.  Or, use the d8 option for morale and maybe get a slightly longer game but better durability for units on the table. 

I do recommend at least five and preferably six stands per unit but you can have one or two figures per stand if you like - or six if you want.  Fewer units with fewer figures reduces the barrier to getting to the game.  I went with eight stands per unit plus a mounted colonel with a foot figure so nine stands total but that is just my personal choice.

[SteveBurt]

You can't go wrong with Fire and Fury. Either the brigade game if you want big battles, or the regimental set for smaller ones. Loads of scenarios for both sets available.

[vtsaogames]

Bloody Big Battles works well for large ACW battles, but no points system. The ACW scenarios are in the BBB group in group.io. They include First Bull Run, Stones River and Champion Hill (my efforts), the designer's most excellent Shiloh, Wilderness, Spotsylvania, and other scenarios by group members, Nashville among them.

Basic units are brigades or divisions, sometimes half-corps. The rules resemble very stripped down Fire and Fury.

My group has played Shiloh 6 or 7 times over the years, always a near-run thing.

Oh yes, basing is the same as Fire & Fury so you can use those for smaller fights.

[Jemima Fawr]

My vote would be for Brigade Fire & Fury (2nd Edition).  I've not played Regimental Fire & Fury.  There's no points-system, but the army generation system for pickup battles is superb.

Most people just seem to use the standard base-sizes, as for 15mm, but with a few more troops on the table.  However, I wanted to do it on a smaller footprint, so reduced the scales by 20% (1 inch in the rules becomes 2cm).  To save on maths, I've put the modified tables on my blog: http://www.jemimafawr.co.uk/2020/02/01/playing-brigade-fire-fury-2nd-edition-in-10mm-i-did-it-my-way/

[mellis1644]

You might want to consider Longstreet. The campaign system is very good and allows you to string together games. It does have a point system for one-off games as well. It's a very specific type of system though so some people will not like it as it a card driven.

I plan on using the Osprey's Rebels & Patriots and/or Too Fat Lardies Sharpe Practice 2 for smaller size engagements using my 10mm figs. I have my 10mm figs on inch square bases and I'll just just use those instead of a single figures. All other things in the rules will remain the same. Doing this really makes the figure to ground scale about 1 to 1 as well which is a bonus. The games look great. It works fine and allows a lot more characterful (and great looking) large skirmishes vs. huge battles. Both systems have points BTW and allow you to play while you work up to the large forces needed for really big battles.

You can see here the units like this look great:
   

[SJWi]

I am surprised you say that Altar of Freedom (AoF) scenarios are limited. There are two scenario books available, each with I think 18 battles. We bought AoF to use with our shiny new collections of Baccus 6mm. The mechanics are quite novel, but we found them overly "fiddly", especially as regards movement. Worth a look as you can get them fairly cheaply as a PdF from Wargames Vault. 

 

[vtsaogames]

I am surprised you say that Altar of Freedom (AoF) scenarios are limited. There are two scenario books available, each with I think 18 battles. We bought AoF to use with our shiny new collections of Baccus 6mm. The mechanics are quite novel, but we found them overly "fiddly", especially as regards movement. Worth a look as you can get them fairly cheaply as a PdF from Wargames Vault. 

Our group tried AoF a few years back. We found the combat system indecisive. The Union at Shiloh wasn't really hard pressed, ditto the Rebs at Champion Hill, etc. Perhaps we were playing it wrong, but combat seemed to produce pushng back and forth with very few units ever routed. I did find the Command/control rules interesting. I'd appreciate your take on the combat and what we might have been doing wrong.

[Mindenbrush]

I play a lot of Fire & Fury - both Brigade 2nd Ed and Regimental in 15/18mm and one of group has used F&F for 10mm Franco-Prussian War.

For scenarios take a look at Potomac Publications in the Wargames Vault, loads of scenarios.

[Ray Rivers]

I play a lot of Fire & Fury - both Brigade 2nd Ed and Regimental in 15/18mm and one of group has used F&F for 10mm Franco-Prussian War.

For scenarios take a look at Potomac Publications in the Wargames Vault, loads of scenarios.

Sorry to side track things... just a quick question.

How good is F&F for the Franco-Prussian War? Does it cover the weapons used adequately or do you have to make some adjustments?