Macedonian Sarissophoroi Cavalry Question

[wmyers]

I lucked out on an eBay auction for a lot of Minifigs 25mm Companion Cavalry and light cavalry with sarissa/kontos being wielded 2 handed.

I know there’s some discrepancies in historians determining the lengths used but any feelings from those on here?

[wmyers]

Maybe pictures would help illustrate what I am referring to (there’s not much online for Minifigs poses).

[Fremitus Borealis]

Wow,... I can't believe I missed this lot 

[wmyers]

Wow,... I can't believe I missed this lot 

I got it for a whole 1 Pound 20 P.

It will definitely help fill out my Macedonian/Successor Cavalry.

[Fremitus Borealis]

Good lord! Clearly I should broaden to Ebay International debault searches 

[wmyers]

There was another bidder.  His max was 99p.

[Fremitus Borealis]

  Wow.

Anywho, I haven't heard of anything regarding the length, although I always sort of assume the spears/sarissas/etc would in reality be a little longer than they appear with miniatures. The biggest thing I've seen/heard with Macedonian cavalry minis is that quite often they used to be sculpted with shields for whatever reason, which didn't really come in until later. Greek and Tarentine cavalry had shields, but Macedonians didn't (at least, that's the general assumption).

[wmyers]

Wow.

Anywho, I haven't heard of anything regarding the length, although I always sort of assume the spears/sarissas/etc would in reality be a little longer than they appear with miniatures. The biggest thing I've seen/heard with Macedonian cavalry minis is that quite often they used to be sculpted with shields for whatever reason, which didn't really come in until later. Greek and Tarentine cavalry had shields, but Macedonians didn't (at least, that's the general assumption).

Yeah, the wow is how I felt too!

So Companion Cavalry did not have shields?  That goes with artwork I’ve seen (knowing an overview of an era/army is far from knowing the details!).  I’m in the process of learning. 

I was just reading the WAB ‘Alexander the Great’ sourcebook and pg 21 states “Companions may substitute javelins and shields for xyston on special commando operations “.

GurKhan on TMP states:

Those figures are PBC6, "Thracian Light Cavalryman with Sarissa" from the old Minifigs Macedonian and Punic range, based on Phil Barker's original "Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars" from the 1970s. Phil reconstructed Alexander's sarissophoroi/prodromoi cavalry as being Thracians, based on a passage in Diodoros which seems to say that. Hence the little furry cap, which is his interpretation of the Thracian fox-skin alopekis.

These days, most scholars would reject this interpretation of Diodoros and probably interpret the sarissophoroi cavalry as being Macedonians. And there is nothing like that little fur cap in depictions of Thracians in ancient art anyway. About the only ancient depiction we have of an unarmoured lancer cavalryman who might be a sarissophoros is a lost painting from the lost Macedonian "Kinch Tomb" – here – and his spear seems to be about ten feet or a bit more, though possibly shortened for the composition.

As for the sarissa, there is no ancient source which explicitly tells us the length of cavalry sarissai, so your guess (or the Minifigs designer's) is as good as any. Ailian's manual says that the shortest sarissai were eight cubits – about twelve feet – long, which might seem plausible for a cavalry lance. But it has been argued that this is a textual corruption, and the ten cubits (about fifteen feet) found in Asclepiodotos is the true shortest length. But of course both these manuals are speaking about infantry sarissai anyway…

This is one of those genuine "nobody really knows" questions.

[Fremitus Borealis]

Yeah, the wow is how I felt too!

So Companion Cavalry did not have shields?  That goes with artwork I’ve seen (knowing an overview of an era/army is far from knowing the details!).  I’m in the process of learning. 

I was just reading the WAB ‘Alexander the Great’ sourcebook and pg 21 states “Companions may substitute javelins and shields for xyston on special commando operations “.

My understanding has always been that Macedonians' cavalry didn't really start using shields until a bit later, when some cavalry got really heavy (cataphracts), and others got "lighter" (with javelins instead of spears). That's just general knowledge though, not wargaming-specific... I'm new enough that I'm not sure what all the different rules call for and whatnot!

Anyway, congrats on that auction... what a steal! And to think I thought I got away with it last week when I won a lot of 30 Essex horses for 30-ish bucks 

[wmyers]

This is one of those once in a year (or few) finds.  I don’t think people are really excited to buy Minifigs miniatures any more.  They’re 25mm to the top of the head, but mounted figures should work fine.  The details are not as fine as expected today, but the cavalry should be just fine.

My Wargames Foundry Companions are a bit small so hopefully they will work together.

I was excited enough I ALMOST told my wife. 

[Fremitus Borealis]

This is one of those once in a year (or few) finds.  I don’t think people are really excited to buy Minifigs miniatures any more.  They’re 25mm to the top of the head, but mounted figures should work fine.  The details are not as fine as expected today, but the cavalry should be just fine.

My Wargames Foundry Companions are a bit small so hopefully they will work together.

Yeah, I think I have a handful of Minifigs cavalry and... they look a little dodgy, but mixed in with others, it shouldn't be too bad. I'd heard they were one of those companies that were really hit and miss with different ranges.

I was excited enough I ALMOST told my wife.

I.... clearly have no idea what you're talking about................. 

[Westbury]

Oldies but goldies!
Have fun.