Twilight 2000 new edition (Kickstarter)

[Grumpy Gnome]

Apologies if this has been brought up already, I searched but did not find it.

Looks like a new version of Twilight 2000 is on Kickstarter right now. I was a fan of the game as a teen... and was surprised to later end up in the real 5th Mech.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/twilight-2000-roleplaying-in-the-wwiii-that-never-was/description

[SBRPearce]

Yes, I'm in on that, too.

I was in high school when T2K came out, and the guys at my local hobby store (not a Friendly Local Game Store, because it had barely any games and wasn't that friendly!) asked me to GM for them.

I was 15 years old. My players consisted of a guy in grad school , two Vietnam-era draft resisters and a former unhappy draftee. (All three in their 40s) Maybe not the best group to play a mil-fi RPG with - they fragged every NPC over the rank of Staff Sargent, even if the character could have been helpful...

Still, I have fond memories of the game - which probably says all sorts of things about me. 

[pixelgeek]

I was in college when we played this. Anarchy is the only way to describe what we did. Not sure I could find anyone to play this with

[CookAndrewB]

Interesting replies. It is because I have these memories of playing with my HS buddies, anarchy and warlord profiteering probably describe our particular story arc, that I can't buy into this. The original game had magic, and this one can't live up to it. These days I'm a solo gamer, and though I can get my wife to occasionally play an RPG with me it isn't the same as having a group of hormonal teens rolling dice, eating all their parent's food that isn't nailed down, and having MTV play actual music videos as the soundtrack to our game.

I hope a new group of kids has fun with this, but I think I would just be bummed out if I tried it.

[Daeothar]

Aw crud...

Fond memories of planning campaigns that never came to be. I still have the original boxed game and several expansion books. Mercs 2000 and Special Ops, both with scenarios in the (then) near future, where WW3 never happened.

I still remember the title of one scenario, 'You're not from around here, are you?' in which your team encounters aliens!

So naturally I pledged, even though it will in all likelyhood never get played...

[pixelgeek]

My fear is that I am too old to play this game with the same anarchic glee that I did. I suspect that I would be far too sensible.

[Grumpy Gnome]

I am always surprised, and to be honest a little disappointed, in the amount of interest I continually find in post-Apoc fans for anarchy.

Both a post-Apoc Larp I attended and the Fallout fan base Community, which I have spent thousands of hours engaged with, seems heavily into anarchist themes. Since I tend to fall into more of a law and order, rebuilding society mindset I often feel either as a minority outsider or someone who just misses some big reveal in human nature which makes reveling in anarchy the obvious choice. Like I am some sort of mug who has fallen for some tyrannical scam designed to keep me a functioning cog in the machine rather than the free spirited enlightened individuals who have reportedly broken the chains of their oppressors.

But then I am also surprised by the proliferation of evil tendency murder hobos in fantasy settings as well.

[Cypher226]

Yep, I've jumped in on this as well.  Just a bit excited about it!

I think the revelling in anarchy is a reaction to an open world with true freedom, in reality people band together and work together. 

I read an analysis of this a couple of months ago when covid restriction protests were in full flow in the US, (I'm truly trying to skirt the edge of the forum guidelines by being reasonably vague!) basically said that a certain mindset thinks things will turn to anarchy in difficult circumstances, but in reality the opposite happens with the majority of people - people want to help others, for the most part.

And I agree, I actually think rebuilding makes a much more interesting game than murderhobos.

[CookAndrewB]

The world is full of all types. I think it is easier to play on the anarchy and lawless side of things in a game setting because there aren't real consequences. In real life, most of us have serious considerations to make about "what happens when I..." Fill in the blank from there. But, there are those humans who lack foresight, and breadth of experience, and seemingly rush into things without a care in the world. I wonder if that is genetic.

Try as I might, I really struggle to play a game like Fallout without the intention to cure FEV, rebuild the world, etc. Too many years in the military following rules and orders, and too many civilian years working with the criminal justice system in a number of roles. I'm not a rule breaker, and my brain is permanently hardwired towards order and justice these days. My son, however, plays games like Fallout with the idea that it is easier to murder a trader and take his wares than it is to trade and save up for what you want. I have no idea where he got that idea from, but I've never once seen him attempt a peaceful speech-based resolution to a problem if killing will get the same result.

To quote Hank Hill "That boy ain't right."  

[Grumpy Gnome]

Yes, fair point about skirting the edges of forum rules. I do not wish to give offense to anyone or break a forum rule.

I have dabbled in “evil role play” in games, online on tabletop and in larp but find it exhausting. Yet I know it is intensely and widely popular with others. Just the other day I was in a Mordor mood for example, and play a game with my Minas Morgul battle company but since we were fighting another evil group I felt more like an anti-hero than villain.

Anti-heroes I understand.

It is interesting that we share a similar background, with the same result Andrew. I wonder what my son will be like when he is old enough to play.

[pixelgeek]

That anarchic play style must have been a phase though as I can't play games like the old KotOR rpg where you have a different story based on taking evil actions.

I had an acquaintance who would no nothing but the evils options and revelled in it. He is now a lawyr

[CookAndrewB]

He is now a lawyr

 

I work at a law office. Definitely have our share of Sith and Jedi  You know, the end result is kind of the same (a galaxy full of rules that won't make everyone happy all the time), but it depends what kind of tools you want to use to get there. Maybe rebuilding societies in general always work that way. I mean, in every post apoc story I can pull to mind the protagonist side is almost always a coordinated band of some sort. Even the Mafia has rules and a way to get a pay raise to provide for the family. That is society building, even if it is on the unsavory side of things.

It is probably fair to say most apocalyptic settings only have anti-heroes. The lesser of two evils, at best. More likely just a different kind of evil for anyone caught in the crossfire. I think that was one of the draws to Twilight 2000, for me. There was less sense that the characters were fighting for the nation state, and now the fight was for survival. That definitely shifts the motives for a character. You might fall on a grenade to save the motherland, but why would you fall on a grenade if all that was gone? There is probably a very thin line between anarchy and selfishness in that situation.

[Grumpy Gnome]

One of the core elements of Twilight 2000 for me was always the message from HQ saying “... you are on your own now...” That sense of abandonment.

I have tried to get my wife interested but the subject matter is the kind of thing she generally dislikes.

[Daeothar]

All stretchgoals have been unlocked! 

Apparently, they're brooding on some more... 

[Grumpy Gnome]

Even if my wife is not a fan, I am pleased to see them do so well.