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Author Topic: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game #2 (page 4), lotsa pics!  (Read 9373 times)

Online OSHIROmodels

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2020, 04:14:11 PM »
Brill  8)

Slightly off topic and heretical suggestion but it sounds like these rules could be used in a fantasy setting such as Game of Thrones?
cheers

James

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Offline Black Burt

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2020, 04:19:53 PM »
Great looking table and write up, it answered a few of my questions as well.
I hope to have a solo game in the near future myself, to familiarize myself with the rules.
Nice looking buildings are they bought or home made?

Offline AndyC

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2020, 04:24:07 PM »
OSHIRO Models - Whatever you choose to get up to in the privacy of your own home...
I know of at least one Billhooker who is already thinking along those lines.
And if you do it for Middle Earth you need to call it "Never Mind the Balrogs"!

Online OSHIROmodels

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2020, 04:26:31 PM »
Thanks Andy, LotR is another good suggestion. Just need to think about zombies, mammoths/oliphants, orcs and magic  lol

Offline Arcane Steve

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2020, 04:40:32 PM »
Hi Captain, I thought that the battle report was excellent and it certainly engaged my attention! The terrain looks lovely and I can see why you would want to use it all. A couple of rules observations from me. First of all, Knights ( on horseback, as opposed to men at arms) save on a 4,5,6, from shooting not a 3,4,5,6. The second option is for melees.
Like Andy, I would not have allowed your charging knights to have come into contact with the billmen without penalty, if at all. The knights seem to have charged around the pond, re aligned themselves and then are attacking over a hedge. Charges must be straight ahead - they should have gone though the pond! I suppose that they could reach the billmen by sticking their lances through the hedge but claiming a charge bonus, after all that fancy manoeuvring is generous to say the least. To my mind, if the knights didn't cross the hedge then they weren't in combat so the Billmen would have just stood and made rude gestures....
The continuing melee is interesting. Again, I wouldn't let the bowmen swap places with the Billmen. The block is locked in melee and is unable to do anything until the melee is resolved. In effect the Billmen are already involved as their  first rank would have contributed to the combat in the first round. Once melee has started it continues with all units locked until resolved. Mr Tenchley would have been rather too busy to reorganise his units. The fact that his card came up is unfortunate. Once he was committed to combat he is out of the game as far as command and control goes until the combat is resolved. After all you are getting his command value in the melee.
As with many of our test games, there is a big debate about what might have happened in real life and how the game mechanics work. I my mind you play the game and fit the result to what may have happened rather than the other way around. That said, not everyone will agree - Andy may have a different view! I hope that helps

Online Captain Blood

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2020, 05:01:02 PM »
Thanks Steve, that is helpful. Useful corrections and insights :)

It is a lot to remember when you first start out, even with such a short set of rules. I’m sure I got much more wrong than that. But it’s an enjoyable game, and you don’t want to spend it with your nose buried in the rule book the whole time.
One just has to remember as many of the key points as one can, rely on a QRS that helpfully reminds you of all those easy-to-overlook little wrinkles and snags in the rules, and hope that you gradually take it all on by osmosis as you play more games!
It’s always the way...  (Gosh, you should have seen me when WRG 5th edition came out lol)

Great looking table and write up, it answered a few of my questions as well.
I hope to have a solo game in the near future myself, to familiarize myself with the rules.
Nice looking buildings are they bought or home made?

Thank you. The buildings are scratchbuilt by none other than my good chum, James, he of Oshiromodelterrain, presently wittering on about fantasy subjects in this very thread lol

Edit: Except the church, I should have said, which is another scratchbuild, but by Silent Invader.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 05:05:47 PM by Captain Blood »

Offline LCpl McDoom

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2020, 05:33:18 PM »
Amazing work, very impressive - and the write-up and questions must have taken a fair amount of time to compile too, so many thanks for doing that as well.

And hedgerows within wargaming, one of my pet favourite subjects - probably down to working on them when I was a teenager (first job after leaving 6th form) with an old hand, the old 'gaffer' who knew so much about them.

For this period and for the Tudor and ECW periods too, I tend to take the 'Great Hedgerow' perspective. Mainly as it was seen as an economic asset, to supply the local communities with fuel (firewood), more so in fact than defining field boundaries. It's why in the really old records of many Parishes, the great hedgerows are mentioned in quite a bit of detail, as to maintain them with 'brushing', 'pollarding' and planting of new tree saplings was to ensure the parishioners had readily available fuel all year round, and for years to come. It's only with the Enclosures acts later in the 1700's onwards that you get walling and little hedging of single plant species begin to grow across the land.

Two potentially interesting sources of historical/research info are here:
https://www4.uwsp.edu/english/rsirabia/notes/212/enclosureActs.pdf
https://www.odi.org/sites/odi.org.uk/files/odi-assets/publications-opinion-files/950.pdf

And finally, somewhere I have some photos showing the re-enactment of Okey's Dragoons fighting at Sulby Hedges, staged at Kelmarsh Hall, which is the best picture I've ever seen demonstrating the scale of dragoon-on-foot and mounted rider against a proper 'Great Hedgerow'. I must see if I can retrieve that.



Offline Arcane Steve

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2020, 06:27:18 PM »
Hi again, Captain! You are right about remembering everything. There's a couple of videos due from WI showing a test game between Andy and myself. We managed to make at least two mistakes with the rules and in the heat of battle, I forgot to play my bonus card, which might of saved my unit from destruction. I also tried to play the black powder rules for a flank attack - Andy soon put me right there! No doubt, Dan will edit the videos to show the 'correct plays' but it just goes to show that even a small set of rules are difficult to grasp completely. I wonder just how some players cope with the more complicated sets out there.
BTW, I must confess to being influenced by your work on the WOTR. My heavy cavalry have 'stolen' some of your colour scheme and ideas. Your brush work is simply amazing!

Offline AndyC

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2020, 06:47:14 PM »
L/Cpl Mc Doom. Very interesting indeed. I think my initial
instincts about hedges in WOTR England were on the right track.
But Billhooks is a game not a simulation
and I have to walk a fine line when it
comes to telling wargamers what they can
and cannot do on the privacy of their own
Tabletops. So, I am minded to allow “field boundaries”
(low walls/hedges) as obstacles and which give extra
Protection in Melee (while suggesting
they were relatively rare at the time) but also to
introduce the idea of “Great Hedges”
and to treat them as long, narrow woods
which block line of sight and cannot be shot through.
A bit of a fudge maybe but I don’t want to
discourage people from playing my game.

Offline LCpl McDoom

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2020, 07:16:53 PM »
Absolutely agree MrC - I only added my 'topiary' element to provide a smidge of historical insight into the mix. My own wargaming hedges are nearly all classic suburban weekend-pruning specials  ;)

Offline OB

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2020, 11:52:53 PM »
A very enjoyable and informative thread, thanks all.

I'm looking forward to my first game of Billhooks as I paint the troops.

Offline levied troop

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2020, 07:01:51 AM »
Excellent looking game as always (I like a crowded battlefield) and a fascinating discussion on hedges.  I’m not sure that too many wargamers are also ramblers but trust me, trying to cross most hedges will cause some personal disarray!
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(We Turn Gold into Lead)

Offline Furt

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2020, 07:42:36 AM »
Cracking table Richard!  :-* Almost enough to turn one to painting medievals.
“A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him.”

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Online Ragnar

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2020, 09:47:52 AM »
Fantastic looking game.
Gods, monsters and men,
Will die together in the end.

Offline Plynkes

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Re: Never Mind The Bill Hooks test game ;)
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2020, 11:01:07 AM »
Co-ol! All that crashing through hedgerows, it's like a Graham Turner painting come to life.

I shall make no comment on the rules questions, lest I  inadvertently reveal that I have no idea what 'm talking about. :)


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Upon our prey we steal...

 

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