Oathmark - Who's Playing?

[Ultravanillasmurf]

For Pikes, I wondered about an additional rank bonus at three ranks (three counts as four, four counts as five). As BZ points out no shields.

Greetings BZ, welcome to the forum. Please tell us about your battles.

have been glueing together units like crazy, so hopefully will be able to update my project thread soon. So far very little painted though

For my sanity, and to stay ahead of this hobby, I can only assemble as my painting goes. Finish one unit/team/warband before buying or assembling another.

I am rather random - my table has Oathmark and Frostgrave, Empress WW2, Rubicon WW", Malifaux, Empress and UnderFire Retro-Ultramoderns, Empress Moderns, Zona Alfa stuff, Empress Vietnam (Anzac, NVA and USMC), Space Opera (Crooked Dice, Anvil, Hasslefree, Frostgrave Gnoll!). There are others that I have not spotted (just spotted the WWX figures).

I was working on the Fireforge Northmen Infantry and some Oathmark Human Infantry (to use Anvil Brodie helmets to differentiate them from the out of the box ones). And then lat night I found the Northern Alliance box from Mantic, and wondered if they were compatible with the Frostgrave Barbarians (they are) and so built two Barbarian Linebreakers (Frostgrave two handled axe and hammer) and two archers (one of which uses a Frostgrave soldiers arms and a Gnoll quiver). They have a mixture of Mantic, Barbarian and Anvil heads

[BZ]

For Pikes, I wondered about an additional rank bonus at three ranks (three counts as four, four counts as five). As BZ points out no shields.

Greetings BZ, welcome to the forum. Please tell us about your battles.

I am rather random - my table has Oathmark and Frostgrave, Empress WW2, Rubicon WW", Malifaux, Empress and UnderFire Retro-Ultramoderns, Empress Moderns, Zona Alfa stuff, Empress Vietnam (Anzac, NVA and USMC), Space Opera (Crooked Dice, Anvil, Hasslefree, Frostgrave Gnoll!). There are others that I have not spotted (just spotted the WWX figures).

I was working on the Fireforge Northmen Infantry and some Oathmark Human Infantry (to use Anvil Brodie helmets to differentiate them from the out of the box ones). And then lat night I found the Northern Alliance box from Mantic, and wondered if they were compatible with the Frostgrave Barbarians (they are) and so built two Barbarian Linebreakers (Frostgrave two handled axe and hammer) and two archers (one of which uses a Frostgrave soldiers arms and a Gnoll quiver). They have a mixture of Mantic, Barbarian and Anvil heads

The additional rank bouns for pikes is a great idea!
About our battles? Well, Im not a big story teller, I would really suck in making battle reports. But in general, all the battles were really fun. In the first approx. 4-5 turns, there was no clear winner, so they were also very exciting. I have only 2 complains:
- Maybe there should be a turn limit, because after that 4-5 turns, the battles can be pretty frustrating. There you see the obvious winner, but you still roll dices, and move troops, to totally annihilate the enemy. But maybe its just our fault, playing without a real objective...
- There was one battle, which was absolutely unbalanced: elven archers and dwarf infantry on the one side (so pretty defensive setup), goblin light, and human heavy cavalry on the other (so clearly offensive). With winning the initiative (there is a human spell which can push this), the cavalry totally destroyed the other army in 4 turns. They had no real chance... Since then there is a house rule, to spend at least 50% of the points on infantry (spearmen, archers, soldiers, warriors, linebreakers, rangers, militia, slaves). It works.
There are approx 300 unpainted miniatures on my desk, and with my speed (I could make 20 human linebreakers in a month or so...), it will last forever... But Im still buying new ones, because... Because Im addicted?

[BZ]

And thanks for the welcome!

[Hobgoblin]

And how about pikes with Brace (2), and two handed (no shields) for the balance? Or halberds: 2 handed, brace (1) and +1 attack strength?

Yes, balancing the doubled Brace with no Shielding and keeping the points the same would work well, I think. And yes, for halberds - or you could treat them as two-handed weapons only when attacking (+1 Fight) and give them Brace when defending - for the same cost as linebreakers.

Ultravanillasmurf's extra rank bonus is a nice idea too.

On the models front, has anyone noticed how good the Victrix vikings are for Oathmark? You get 60 for £38 (or a sprue of 8 for £5 from eBay sellers). In Oathmark terms, they can be built as linebreakers, spearmen, warriors, soldiers or militia.

[Ogrob]

On the models front, has anyone noticed how good the Victrix vikings are for Oathmark? You get 60 for £38 (or a sprue of 8 for £5 from eBay sellers). In Oathmark terms, they can be built as linebreakers, spearmen, warriors, soldiers or militia.

I have a number of them and kitbashes of them in one of my Oathmark projects. Here's a unit done up as Human Warriors:


More photos in my Fantasy log. Second link in my signature.

[BZ]

Yes, balancing the doubled Brace with no Shielding and keeping the points the same would work well, I think. And yes, for halberds - or you could treat them as two-handed weapons only when attacking (+1 Fight) and give them Brace when defending - for the same cost as linebreakers.

Ultravanillasmurf's extra rank bonus is a nice idea too.

On the models front, has anyone noticed how good the Victrix vikings are for Oathmark? You get 60 for £38 (or a sprue of 8 for £5 from eBay sellers). In Oathmark terms, they can be built as linebreakers, spearmen, warriors, soldiers or militia.

You have to look at the balance so, that you also see the mathematics behind. 1 point difference on the fight-defense roll changes the chance of a hit by 10% (untill its not bigger then 10, and if you dont count with double/triple hits), and taking away a dice while attacking means a -20% chance, but for both sides. So what would Brace (2) against Brace (1) with a shield mean?
- Brace (2) is -20% to get hit while defending, without lowering the hit chance of the counterstrike
- Brace (1) with a shield is -30% to get hit, but also -20% for the counterstrike
So the gap between stirke-counterstrike is 20% vs. 10%, so Brace (2) would be better, but what if, the enemy has no Charge (x) ability? Brace does nothing, shiled makes -20%/-20%, the gap closes. And what happens with ranged attacks? Brace does nothing, while shield boosts the defense by 20%. And what is the opponent has high armour, so you would need 10+ against? Lowering your very low hit chance by 20% because of the shield would mean nothing... And against orcs and goblins, who have only Charge (1)? Brace (2) would be equal to Brace (1). So Brace (2) is better against charging of a relatively weak opponents (like Wolf riders), but in every other case, Brace (1) with shielding is at least not worse. The extra rank bonus (from for example more than 2 ranks) would boost everything towards Brace (2), with +10% while close combat, and that would be a really good balance in my opinion!
But halberds would definitely need +10% point value, because linebreaker vs. halberdier would be the same difference as soldier vs. spearman: gap is Brace (1).
To the models: I really love the look of these Victrix Vikings! But... There are 2 buts for me:
- I started my human army based on Perry Agincourt range, so vikings wouldn't really fit in there, at least not for heavy armor.
- How would You differentiate the 3 armour levels (no armor D8, light armor D9, heavy armor D10) with these miniatures?

[BZ]

Anyone thought about using dwarf soldier rules for elite human warriors (for example for kings guard)? Because the difference is only -1 activation. And then maybe the dwarf spearman rules for human heavy elite spearman (-1 activation with the -1 move and +1 defense of the heavy armor)?

[mruk]

On the models front, has anyone noticed how good the Victrix vikings are for Oathmark? You get 60 for £38 (or a sprue of 8 for £5 from eBay sellers). In Oathmark terms, they can be built as linebreakers, spearmen, warriors, soldiers or militia.

I'm thinking about buying some Dacians:
https://www.victrixlimited.com/products/dacians
There are some archers, some light armored guys and some in heavy armor in one box.

[Hobgoblin]

I have a number of them and kitbashes of them in one of my Oathmark projects. Here's a unit done up as Human Warriors:


More photos in my Fantasy log. Second link in my signature.

Those are brilliant!

You have to look at the balance so, that you also see the mathematics behind. 1 point difference on the fight-defense roll changes the chance of a hit by 10% (untill its not bigger then 10, and if you dont count with double/triple hits), and taking away a dice while attacking means a -20% chance, but for both sides. So what would Brace (2) against Brace (1) with a shield mean?
- Brace (2) is -20% to get hit while defending, without lowering the hit chance of the counterstrike
- Brace (1) with a shield is -30% to get hit, but also -20% for the counterstrike
So the gap between stirke-counterstrike is 20% vs. 10%, so Brace (2) would be better, but what if, the enemy has no Charge (x) ability? Brace does nothing, shiled makes -20%/-20%, the gap closes. And what happens with ranged attacks? Brace does nothing, while shield boosts the defense by 20%. And what is the opponent has high armour, so you would need 10+ against? Lowering your very low hit chance by 20% because of the shield would mean nothing...

Not sure on that last point - rolling 5 dice, each with a 1 in 10 chance to hit, is surely better than rolling 4. You'd have a 50% chance of a kill without Shielding versus 40%. And if you've got a dense formation, with plenty of ranks, you're probably going to want to maximise your chance of killing the opposing cavalry while you're still at full strength.

And against orcs and goblins, who have only Charge (1)? Brace (2) would be equal to Brace (1). So Brace (2) is better against charging of a relatively weak opponents (like Wolf riders), but in every other case, Brace (1) with shielding is at least not worse. The extra rank bonus (from for example more than 2 ranks) would boost everything towards Brace (2), with +10% while close combat, and that would be a really good balance in my opinion!

Yes, the extra rank bonus is a good idea. Now I think about it, I wonder whether pikes might be Brace (3) - meaning that they'd entirely nullify the charge bonus of even the heaviest cavalry. They would be more specialised than spearmen (as a counter to cavalry), but that might provide a welcome rock/paper/scissors element.

But halberds would definitely need +10% point value, because linebreaker vs. halberdier would be the same difference as soldier vs. spearman: gap is Brace (1).

My idea was that halberdiers would be F3 when attacking but only F2 (plus Brace) when defending. So they'd typically cause fewer casualties when defending than would linebreakers, but would be less vulnerable to cavalry and orcs/goblins. That keeps linebreakers as the optimal offensive infantry unit but makes halberdiers offensive when attacking but defensive when being charged. That seems more or less balanced to me. Of course, lighter-armoured halberdiers could have a lower D.

To the models: I really love the look of these Victrix Vikings! But... There are 2 buts for me:
- I started my human army based on Perry Agincourt range, so vikings wouldn't really fit in there, at least not for heavy armor.
- How would You differentiate the 3 armour levels (no armor D8, light armor D9, heavy armor D10) with these miniatures?

I'm also going to use some Perry Agincourt knights, though probably with dwarf linebreaker stats to reflect ultra-heavy armour. But yes, if they're your heavies, the vikings won't quite fit.

I think the sprue does the differentiation quite nicely. There are full mail hauberks for warriors and linebreakers. Although there's only one body with cloth/leather armour for soldiers and spearmen, there are also helmeted and unhelmeted heads. So I'm giving soldiers at least a helmet and militia just bare heads or hats and no armour. I'm also having some back-rank linebreakers with only helmets, just to make full use of the available Dane axes (one or two of which only fit on unarmoured bodies). They'll be removed first, of course, so the fully armoured core will last longer. And I'm mixing in some Fireforge Russians too.

[Hobgoblin]

I'm thinking about buying some Dacians:
https://www.victrixlimited.com/products/dacians
There are some archers, some light armored guys and some in heavy armor in one box.

Yes, that looks a good option. The two-handed falx is surely a linebreaking weapon par excellence!.

[BZ]

Not sure on that last point - rolling 5 dice, each with a 1 in 10 chance to hit, is surely better than rolling 4. You'd have a 50% chance of a kill without Shielding versus 40%. And if you've got a dense formation, with plenty of ranks, you're probably going to want to maximise your chance of killing the opposing cavalry while you're still at full strength.

Yes, the extra rank bonus is a good idea. Now I think about it, I wonder whether pikes might be Brace (3) - meaning that they'd entirely nullify the charge bonus of even the heaviest cavalry. They would be more specialised than spearmen (as a counter to cavalry), but that might provide a welcome rock/paper/scissors element.

My idea was that halberdiers would be F3 when attacking but only F2 (plus Brace) when defending. So they'd typically cause fewer casualties when defending than would linebreakers, but would be less vulnerable to cavalry and orcs/goblins. That keeps linebreakers as the optimal offensive infantry unit but makes halberdiers offensive when attacking but defensive when being charged. That seems more or less balanced to me. Of course, lighter-armoured halberdiers could have a lower D.

Thats why I wrote relatively. For example, 2 lines oh human heavy cavalry is chargeing into 3 lines of goblin soldiers. So one (front) human cavalry has a hit chance of 80%, while one (front) goblin only 10%. Lets translate this into avarage wounds caused. Cavalry would cause 0.8 wounds, but there is rule for multiple wounds with overkill its actually 1.1. While the goblins cause 0.1 average/dice. So the combat without shield would be 5.5/0.5, and with shield 4.4/0.4. So the goblins would save more than 1 wound in exchange of lowering their damage chances by 0.1. So there, a shild is way better. And and more: target number above 10 has only 3% chance/dice to hit. But if the quality difference between the two sides is smaller, or inverted, shields are worse.
A brace (3) would be too specialized for my taste, but its certanly an option.
F3/F2+brace is worse, but F3/F3+brace is better then a simply F3/F3. I still would choose F3/F3+brace, because the simplicity. Maybe an F2/F3+brace would be also an option for pikes?

[BZ]

I think the sprue does the differentiation quite nicely. There are full mail hauberks for warriors and linebreakers. Although there's only one body with cloth/leather armour for soldiers and spearmen, there are also helmeted and unhelmeted heads. So I'm giving soldiers at least a helmet and militia just bare heads or hats and no armour. I'm also having some back-rank linebreakers with only helmets, just to make full use of the available Dane axes (one or two of which only fit on unarmoured bodies). They'll be removed first, of course, so the fully armoured core will last longer. And I'm mixing in some Fireforge Russians too.

I really like the look of these vikings, and mybe its possible to clearly differentiate the 3 different armor levels. But because of the more dynamic poses, I dont know, how easy is to mix and match the body parts... I have only experience with Perry and Northstar sets, and there is practically everything possible, but I never holt a Victrix sprue in my hand.

[Mr. White]

Finally got my book in last night and read through it. It reads clean and the system looks easy. I hope it's got the nuance to have legs. I think it will through battlefield arrangements, but this is my first foray into this style of game, so I'm not sure.

It does look like it's going to be really difficult for me to select units from the model kits. There are so many options and combinations. Particularly since I'll be doing two small armies.

[BZ]

Finally got my book in last night and read through it. It reads clean and the system looks easy. I hope it's got the nuance to have legs. I think it will through battlefield arrangements, but this is my first foray into this style of game, so I'm not sure.

It does look like it's going to be really difficult for me to select units from the model kits. There are so many options and combinations. Particularly since I'll be doing two small armies.

Dont worry, it was also my first mass battle game, but the rules are really easy to learn and follow!
Just make 10 soldiers, 10 archers and 10 spearman from one box. We did it also, and when for example 15 spearman were needed, we made the first ranks of spearman, and the remaining rank were filled up with soldiers. For the beginning its absolutely enough.

[Hobgoblin]

I really like the look of these vikings, and mybe its possible to clearly differentiate the 3 different armor levels. But because of the more dynamic poses, I dont know, how easy is to mix and match the body parts... I have only experience with Perry and Northstar sets, and there is practically everything possible, but I never holt a Victrix sprue in my hand.

I've been very impressed with the vikings (all 16 from the two sprues I bought are now assembled). I'd say they're the easiest kits of the lot and among the best designed. But the parts aren't universally compatible with each other in the way that the Northstar and Perry ones are. While any body can be made into a spearman, swordsman, axeman, seax-wielder or Dane-axe-wielder, not all of the arms are compatible with every body. Most arms join at the elbows, but others are full arms. And each of the Dane axes only fits certain bodies. Even so, you get a huge amount of variety, and they're very easy to assemble. They're also very natural looking, despite the dynamism, and the two-handed weapons are easier to get right than the Northstar varieties.

It does look like it's going to be really difficult for me to select units from the model kits. There are so many options and combinations. Particularly since I'll be doing two small armies.

I'd second BZ on just making groups of 10. His point on the front ranks is a very good one too. As you take casualties from the back, you only need the front rank to be by the book.