Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III

[Atheling]

The first thing I need to point out is that the following "How to Play Swordpoint" videos have been skilfully collated and narrated by Nic aka Medieval Wargamer with his permission from his YouTube Channel.

Here are Parts I, II and III with more to come.

You can see the videos on my blog here:
https://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.com/2020/10/swordpoint-how-to-play-videos-by.html

Or here are the direct links in sequence to Nic's Medieval Warrior page on YouTube:
Why I like SWORDPOINT Rules- "Line of Battle"

[Doom Beard 78]

How popular or widely played are these rules?

[Atheling]

How popular or widely played are these rules?

According to the WSS podcast GB have had over 3000 people putting input into the second edition George.

[Doom Beard 78]

other than Martin at shows; I have yet to encounter anyone actually play them. I have been on the side lines waiting to see if the rules built up the following that WAB had as I was a bit reluctant to invest in another ruleset which just occupies shelf space. I did once post on the swordpoint forum for players in the London area ( population of 8m according to the 2011 census) - received zero response. closest was reading, which is a bit of a faff for me to get too for an evening game 

[Atheling]

other than Martin at shows; I have yet to encounter anyone actually play them. I have been on the side lines waiting to see if the rules built up the following that WAB had as I was a bit reluctant to invest in another ruleset which just occupies shelf space.

i don't think GB were expecting Swordpoint to replace WAB mate. I don't think anyone could. 1/ Most WAB players started with WHFB or were at least familiar with the basic mechanics of the game prior to playing the Historical version. 2/ It would be almost impossible to emulate the sheer reach that GW had/still has. I do think it's a bit of a shame that the rules haven't been picked up as much as they might have been in the popular wargamers imagination. I've mentioned to GB that they need to use YouTube, in the same manner as the Lardies and Mortem et Gloriam, Never mind the Billhooks etc have successfully managed. Hopefully this will come into fruition now that the Second Edition has been released.

 

I did once post on the swordpoint forum for players in the London area ( population of 8m according to the 2011 census) - received zero response. closest was reading, which is a bit of a faff for me to get too for an evening game

Try The Swordpoint and Militus Mundi Players Facebook page George, you will get a better response as the forum is not used on a regular basis; which again I think is a shame as I think the old fashioned fora, like LAF, are a much more civilised way in which more complex ideas can be discussed.

[Doom Beard 78]

hopefully it will build a critical mass and grow as a rule set, but I wonder if the current  zeitgeist has moved away from the 28mm big battle rule set towards games with smaller figure counts  and simpler rules rather like SAGA, SPQR. Infamy etc or if people prefer to do it in 15mm for reasons of cost, transportation and space

I am not on Facebook, so that rules that option out.

I wonder if the 40x40/50x50 basing thing may have hurt Swordpoint. If your figures were individually based for WAB you either have to get some card counters made up or rebase. Its even worse if you happened to have used 60x20 as your standard for multibasing the rank and file. 

[Atheling]

hopefully it will build a critical mass and grow as a rule set, but I wonder if the current  zeitgeist has moved away from the 28mm big battle rule set towards games with smaller figure counts  and simpler rules rather like SAGA, SPQR. Infamy etc or if people prefer to do it in 15mm for reasons of cost, transportation and space

I wonder how much this is really true. Take a peek at some of the Never Mind the Bilhooks posts in the Medieval section and you will see armies of about 100 mini's per side being posted regularly. I think it's swings and roundabout. There will eventually be a move back towards 'mass battles'  for want of a better phrase.

I wonder if the 40x40/50x50 basing thing may have hurt Swordpoint. If your figures were individually based for WAB you either have to get some card counters made up or rebase. Its even worse if you happened to have used 60x20 as your standard for multibasing the rank and file.

Maybe. I think the base size is a little small for most 28mm ranges nowadays. I've gone for 60mm deep with my Byzantines for example. I want my mini's to 'talk' to one another not just be stuffed onto a prescribed size. If I get outflanked more, then that's something I can live with (and with a sile on my face ).

Oh, you could still play with WAB sized bases. 4 x 20mm x 20mm = one base sort of thing. You can always fudge things re: base sizes as long as they are not too extreme.

[Johnp4000]

I would give Swordpoint some credit as it is one of the few rules sets that give some advantage to maintaining a line of battle.
I think it is difficult to gauge how popular any rules are just by reading forums, there always seems to be a vocal minority pushing 'the latest shiny thing' but how representative that is of the overall hobby?
WAB and the DBx series both had a large gaming community which no subsequent set has come close to gaining. I think there are still gamers with big collections but perhaps they don't publicise it? No doubt the gaming tables are still thrilling to WAB or even WRG 6th edition.

[Atheling]

I would give Swordpoint some credit as it is one of the few rules sets that give some advantage to maintaining a line of battle.

Which is the single most important thing that had to be maintained at all costs in an Ancient/Late Antiquity/Dark Ages (Early Medieval) battle. This is why I like the concept so much.

I think it is difficult to gauge how popular any rules are just by reading forums, there always seems to be a vocal minority pushing 'the latest shiny thing' but how representative that is of the overall hobby?

That is indeed almost impossible to gauge without a deep empirical study.

WAB and the DBx series both had a large gaming community which no subsequent set has come close to gaining. I think there are still gamers with big collections but perhaps they don't publicise it? No doubt the gaming tables are still thrilling to WAB or even WRG 6th edition.

Well, we still play WAB at the club (not so much since March!). V 1.5 which is perhaps surprising.

[Johnp4000]

Which is the single most important thing that had to be maintained at all costs in an Ancient/Late Antiquity/Dark Ages (Early Medieval) battle. This is why I like the concept so much.

That is indeed almost impossible to gauge without a deep empirical study.

Well, we still play WAB at the club (not so much since March!). V 1.5 which is perhaps surprising.

I think like the infamous Republican Roman rank replacement, most rule systems just ignore the importance of maintain the line. Do you remember in older rule sets, defeating the unit in front could cause panic to the units on either side, now apparently popular systems like HC and TTS , there is no impact on neighbouring units. I remember one game of TTs where I broke through the centre reached the table edge while the enemy's remaining units were still fighting near the centre. It would be difficult to see anything happening like that in a real world situation?

The classic question V1.5 or 2, must admit I thought 2, has some good ideas, a pity about the proof reading!

[Atheling]

I think like the infamous Republican Roman rank replacement, most rule systems just ignore the importance of maintain the line. Do you remember in older rule sets, defeating the unit in front could cause panic to the units on either side, now apparently popular systems like HC and TTS , there is no impact on neighbouring units. I remember one game of TTs where I broke through the centre reached the table edge while the enemy's remaining units were still fighting near the centre. It would be difficult to see anything happening like that in a real world situation?

The classic question V1.5 or 2, must admit I thought 2, has some good ideas,

Agreed. Swordpoint has a very good way of dealing with the Roman maniple, Early and Middle Imperial legions. A simple rule called Stamina. It basically allows for them to take a base of hits without removing the base. Simple, elegant and (probably) effective.

[Westbury]

I've got Swordpoint set up on the table at the moment - card cut out bases to trial for Successors, already done TTS and HC, so I'll be interested how it plays out.

[Atheling]

I've got Swordpoint set up on the table at the moment - card cut out bases to trial for Successors, already done TTS and HC, so I'll be interested how it plays out.

Report back please 

[Johnp4000]

I would be interested to hear too, my mates dislike the momentum system which I found a bit cumbersome as well.

[bigredbat]

now apparently popular systems like HC and TTS , there is no impact on neighbouring units

In TtS! when you break a unit, usually the units on either side need to take a rout test, which can, sometimes, carry them away. Personally, when I achieve a breakthrough, I usually turn the unit onto the exposed flank of one of the units on either side, although sometimes it can be worth rushing the enemy camp.